D&D General Greyhawk: Snarf's Guide to Ready-Made Campaign Themes!

[Snarf Zagyg]

For the muscular neutral I think it is helpful to remember the Greyhawk good guys include stuff like the Theocracy of the Pale with their one true path intolerance.

Yeah, I have gotten a lot of mileage over the years with the Theocracy of the Pale... it is definitely a way to explore the tensions that can arise when "good" becomes rigid and intolerant.

 

[Parmandur]

I don’t know the details of this theocracy, but I suspect I would take exception to it being characterized as “good.”

Well, it hasn't always been handled particularly well (side-eye at 3E portrayals of the Pale*, but the gist ia that the people of the Pale achieved their independence of from the very bad Great Kingdom and fairly not-nice Kimgdom of Nyrond under the leadership of Clerics of Pholtus, the God of Light. They are depicted as strict Henotheists (only Pholtus, all the time), which has mostly been treated as a joke or excuse for off-putting behavior. But there is nothing in tje text that suggests that they are anything other than Lawful Good regarding treatment of people and their way of life, if not enthused for the worship of other gods. Worth noting that the local history of "other gods" from the Great Kingdom or, worse, Iuz, is not great.

 

[payn]

Im more into atrophied chaos myself.

 

[MGibster]

I want to talk about D&D by bringing up a completely unrelated game. In 1991, R. Talsorian Games released a sourcebook for Cyberpunk 2020 called Night City. As you may have guessed, Night City was a supplement fleshing out the city helping make the game come alive. You were given details about each neighborhood, including notable buildings and NPCs, and one of my favorite was the list of gangs operating throughout the city. There was no metaplot, you could take or leave anything in the book as you saw fit, and there was plenty of room to add what you wanted without getting in the way of anything. Arkham for Call of Cthulhu is the same way. It's just a great sourcebook that provides you with fodder for adventure.

That's what I'm looking forward to for Greyhawk. This sounds great. It sounds fun. It's about the only thing I've been excited about for D&D in a number of years.

 

[Voadam]

I don’t know the details of this theocracy, but I suspect I would take exception to it being characterized as “good.”

Generally things are a light sketch so it can be a wide range of interpretations and I feel that places can have bad aspects while overall judging them on the good side of the line for bigger good aspects. The biggest negative in the theocracy's description is "The Pale is not noted for its religious tolerance." You can go into full on villainous inquisitions as a characterization and good in name only, but the text does not.

Generally (though not explicitly in the 1e boxed set) associated with the worship of LG(N) Pholtus of the Blinding Light

Pholtus is on the neutral end of the LG pool with his one true wayism but he is still there and I think there is room for such in the D&D alignment system.

Greyhawk also has a map of alignment breakdowns for the Flanaess though it is not easy in the book to match things up exactly as they are not labelled by country name and it is a huge sprawling map to pull out physically.

Huh, the Theocracy in the alignment map is actually shaded into LN, not LG. Looks like Gygax agrees with you.

The Pale is a little to the upper right from the center.

 

[Zeromaru X]

There is no difference between a dragonborn today and a half-ogre or duergar in the past.

Sadly, I don't see this statement as true given what they published in Ghosts of Saltmarch. And that book heavily coloured my opinion about Greyhawk (negatively, if I have to clarify). Add to that all the Gygax's stuff, and that's why I've purposefully avoided Greyhawk...

Anyways, thanks for sharing your insights. I'm still waiting to see if this new is 5e take changes my opinion about the setting.

 

[Zeromaru X]

Isolationist elves.

How the Greyhawk isolationist elves are different from the Forgotten Realms isolationist elves and from the Dragonlance isolationist elves? I mean, you are saying this is one of the highlights of Greyhawk, but in my PoV this an already used to boringness trope.

 

[Zeromaru X]

Yeah, I have gotten a lot of mileage over the years with the Theocracy of the Pale... it is definitely a way to explore the tensions that can arise when "good" becomes rigid and intolerant.

Then is not actually good. They just claim to be good, but claiming to be something doesn't make you that something. They are evil in my PoV.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Then is not actually good. They just claim to be good, but claiming to be something doesn't make you that something. They are evil in my PoV.

I suppose the Good alignment could also include “be nice”, and being mean makes you no longer Good aligned, and if everyone could just sit down and talk things through everyone who is Good would be polite and have no disagreements?

 

[Voadam]

How the Greyhawk isolationist elves are different from the Forgotten Realms isolationist elves and from the Dragonlance isolationist elves? I mean, you are saying this is one of the highlights of Greyhawk, but in my PoV this an already used to boringness trope.

Isolationist Elves are not unique to Greyhawk.

Fantasy Vikings are not unique to Greyhawk.

Fantasy Arabs are not unique to Greyhawk.

Fantasy Pirates are not unique to Greyhawk.

Former great empire fallen to a fraction of its former size and turned to fiend worship is not unique to Greyhawk.

They are all themes that are strongly present in the 1e boxed set though.

Use them as you like and it will strongly fit in Greyhawk.

The big uniques of Greyhawk are things like:

Scarlet Brotherhood political behind the scenes manipulator evil monks.

Iuz - evil demonic demigod open ruler of an expanding empire.

Wastri - demigod of a human ethnic racial purity and hatred of demihumanoids but also a swamp and frog aspect and lives in the world.

Zagyg - ascended mage demigod of chaos magic.