Grim-n-Gritty: Revised and Simplified

[KenHood]

Howdy folks,

It's been a while since I've posted on this site or even worked on the d20 system. I've had a revision of the Grim-n-Gritty Hit Point and Combat Rules brewing in my skull for a couple of years and thought I'd put them to paper. Those of you familiar with the old rules will find these a major departure, though the spirit and intent are the same. Hopefully, you will find a couple of the old problems with the system have been solved. For example, you can overcome a creature's heavy armor with a good attack roll. There's a dice cap that makes it easier to incorporate the existing fire-n-forget magic system. You'll find converting existing creatures to the revised GnG is a HECK of a lot easier than the original GnG.

Should you decide to use this system in your games, you will find that it screws up the CR's of nearly every creature. Also, I think you'll find it's a little easier to kill or be killed in this revision of the system.

If you use this in play and have any anecdotes to share, I'd be interested in reading them.

Caveats: It's not a realistic system, just a less cinematic one. It's not perfect. It's not universal. It's not for everyone. And, no, I do not think the entire d20 combat system should be replaced with it.

Enjoy,
Ken Hood

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ADDED 04/07/2004

ENWorld is now hosting the rules at http://www.enworld.org/forums/local_links.php?action=links&catid=19

Thanks, ENWorld!

The latest version of the rules is dated 4-7-2004.

Changes:
*Corrected a couple of typos.
*Clarified explanation of figuring base defense bonus.
*Moved the dice cap and sneak attack rules to a variants section.
*Added a variant rule for Dexterity as the universal attack roll modifier, rather than Strength for melee and Dexterity for ranged. (Also added a feat, Brute Force, to go along with this variant.)

Again, thanks for the suggestions and requests for clarification. I look forward to hearing some playtesting discussion.

 

[Cergorach]

Whoo! I thought you had disappeared fom the face of the earth, welcome back, i'll be taking a look at the new rules when i'm fully awake ;-)

 

[KenHood]

Thanks. I'm still disappeared from the face of the earth, but I needed to get this little thing out of my skull.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Thanks. I'm still disappeared from the face of the earth, but I needed to get this little thing out of my skull.

Some folks were reminiscing about the Sleeping Imperium setting. I don't suppose you still have some of the documents hanging around from that, would you?

It would be enthusiastically appreciated if they were made available somehow.

Here's a recent link where they were discussed: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38220

 

[KenHood]

It looks like they've got most of the generic rules posted on that thread already. As for the content specific to the Sleeping Imperium, I want to keep that closed for now. There's a reason for that, but I cannot go into details on it yet.

 

[SSquirrel]

It looks like they've got most of the generic rules posted on that thread already. As for the content specific to the Sleeping Imperium, I want to keep that closed for now. There's a reason for that, but I cannot go into details on it yet.

Hey Ken I've been hosting the old GnG rules on my site since people seemed to be having a hard time finding it recently. Hope that's cool. I'll hafta take a look at these new ones and include them as well *grin*

Hagen

 

[KenHood]

Hey Ken I've been hosting the old GnG rules on my site since people seemed to be having a hard time finding it recently. Hope that's cool.

That's fine. Like Fight Club, the GnG rules are free to all.

 

[Cergorach]

Just got around to reading it, SWEET! Reminds me of Shadowrun,

Couple of remarks:
1.) The Life Bar goes directly from Lightly Wounded to Severly Wounded, it could be me but it would sound better if there was a Moderately Wounded in between there.
2.) Dying says that you suffer a -5 penalty on all attack rolls, defense, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws, but then states that you cannot take any actions...
3.) Toughness feat adds +1 Soak per level, are we talking about character level? If so, the Thoughness feat is way to powerful. If not, what are you talking about?
4.) If one uses default classes, where do the difference in hit points come in? What makes a Ranger and a barbarian different in taking on damage?

 

[Yair]

Just wondering, are these rules inspired by Ars Magica in some part? Some of the terminology and mechanics are just the same.
Regardless - although I never used it, I was very impressed by your Sleeping Imperium material, and I am glad to know you have some plans for it.

 

[KenHood]

1.) The Life Bar goes directly from Lightly Wounded to Severly Wounded, it could be me but it would sound better if there was a Moderately Wounded in between there.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I disagree. Adding a new column increases survivability. However, you have a semantical point about the need for a middle category. I've dropped Not Wounded, and changed it to Lightly Wounded.

2.) Dying says that you suffer a -5 penalty on all attack rolls, defense, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws, but then states that you cannot take any actions....

Yes. You are correct. There are some things that occur whether or not one is conscious or able to take actions. The penalties apply in these cases.

3.) Toughness feat adds +1 Soak per level, are we talking about character level? If so, the Thoughness feat is way to powerful. If not, what are you talking about?

Each purchase of Toughness is a "level" of Toughness. I would permit a character to acquire no more than three "levels" of this feat. Each time you get Toughness, you get +1 Soak.

I did change the wording in the original document to add clarity.

4.) If one uses default classes, where do the difference in hit points come in? What makes a Ranger and a barbarian different in taking on damage?

There are no hit points.

A barbarian's Damage Reduction would make them quite different from a ranger in taking damage.

Hit points are a cinematic element of the d20 system. The GnG rules favor less cinema, so everyone has pretty much the same reaction to being stabbed, shot, and burned. If you wish a character more resistant to damage, get a high Constitution, wear armor, and acquire levels of toughness. In this manner, fighter types have more resistance to damage. (And that makes combat a little more like real life.)

Hit points in the d20 system don't represent a character's actual life, but more luck, ability to avoid attacks, etc. In the GnG system, Defense handles that. Characters with high attack bonuses or good Reflex saves have better Defense. In the GnG system, the Life Bar is your actual life.

You'll find, in the end, that classes end up sorting out in combat ability pretty much the same as if you used hit points and regular AC.

Fighter types will be at the top end of soaking up damage (from use of armor and toughness) and avoid damage (from high base attack bonuses). (Remember, in the regular system, high Hit Points mean you are better at avoiding attacks.)

Rogue types come out in the middle. They'll have poor Soak capacity from light armor and typically low Constitution. They'll have decent ability to avoid attacks, because of the high Reflex save or middling base attack bonus. Their sneak attacks will devastate characters with high Soak.

Cleric types notch out the rogues in the Soak department: They can wear armor and most people put a better Constitution score on a cleric than a thief. Their ability to avoid attacks will be about the same as rogue. Overall, it's about what you'd expect in the difference between d8 and d6 hit points.

Wizard types end up on the bottom of the scale. Their Soak will stink. Their ability to avoid attacks will likewise stink.

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Honestly, if you want to maintain the specific core rules differences between classes, DO NOT use this system!

This is one of the things I found frustrating about comments regarding the original GnG rules. Folks kept sending e-mails along the lines of "It doesn't work like the core rules! Why won't you make it work like the core rules?!" They missed the point that it is NOT SUPPOSED to work like the core rules. It's a variant, and it changes the game on a fundamental level. That's not a weakness of the system, but the PURPOSE of the system.