Grim-n-Gritty: Revised and Simplified

[SSquirrel]

I was about to ask where these new rules were, since I didn't see an attachment. Can you repost it or put it up as a link somewhere else?

Speaking of updates, whenever ya update it Ken, drop it in my email and I'll update my site with it.

hagen_kirk at yahoo.com

Hagen

 

[SSquirrel]

I was just rereading the original version *as I never played them but have had them d/led for ages* and I was seeing exactly how simplified all of the things are. Quite a bit from the original. No more rules about bleeding or not being proficient with the armor for one. I'm very curious to see how this all works out in a game. I spread the word over to Monte's boards as well. I now have the revised rules posted for download, but have no incorporated the changes mentioned in this thred to the downloadable version. I just have those in my personal version.


http://www.giant.net/~hagen/GrimNGrittyRevised.doc

old for comparison:
http://www.giant.net/~hagen/GrimNGrittyHitPointRules.rtf

Hagen

 

[KenHood]

Well, I can't get the doggone things to upload. The site says the upload is "in progress" and gives me an error, but no go on getting it to post.

I did send a copy of the file to you, SSquirrel. If you could post it, I'd appreciate it.

 

[SSquirrel]

Well, I can't get the doggone things to upload. The site says the upload is "in progress" and gives me an error, but no go on getting it to post.

I did send a copy of the file to you, SSquirrel. If you could post it, I'd appreciate it.

www.giant.net/~hagen/Grim-n-GrittyRevised.doc is the new version.

Hagen

 

[KenHood]

Thanks.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Extremely nice, Mr. Hood. I look forward to seeing more Sleeping Imperium stuff sometime, be it fiction or game material. Few settings are as evocative as it.

 

[SSquirrel]

I made a thread over on Monte's boards and some of the initial impressions are in (without trial naturally):

"I have to say I seriously dislike the revised version. It is a vast, vast departure from standard D&D, where the old version tried to use as much compatable terminology and concepts as possible."

"I like the critical hit rules, but everything else seems like an attempt at a straight conversion of the Storyteller system into D&D; I don't find that terribly grim or gritty, only extremely upsetting to balance (who would ever play a spryte?)"

"Faen get hosed badly enough...this system makes anything but a spellcaster faen impossible. And giants become the melee gods, once they take their class levels...and can't they become Huge with Giant Paragon? You're giving them +8 to damage and effectively DR 6/--- because of that size. (It's only 6 because they get +8 soak, but -2 to their Def.)"

The main thrust of those comments is how the rules affect Faen who can morph into a spryte if they choose which is a Tiny creature. Would likely discourage play of the race in general as stated above.

(edit:deleted the alk of +8 and -8 as taht references teh Sneak bonus not AC bonus heh)

I know, untested and all, but it definitely doesn't make people real eager to play smaller races. Bigger sure.

Oh yeah the topic is here:

http://pub247.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm29.showMessage?topicID=2316.topic

Hagen

 

[whydirt]

www.giant.net/~hagen/Grim-n-GrittyRevised.doc is the new version.

Hagen

Is there a chance anyone could reformat this real quick as an .rtf file for those of us without MS Word?

 

[KenHood]

"I have to say I seriously dislike the revised version. It is a vast, vast departure from standard D&D, where the old version tried to use as much compatable terminology and concepts as possible."

I figured a lot of folks would feel that way. Few cultures are more resistant to change than roleplaying gamers.

"I like the critical hit rules, but everything else seems like an attempt at a straight conversion of the Storyteller system into D&D...."

Seeing as I have no idea what the Storyteller system is, that's a patently untrue statement. I hate this sort of speculation.

"Faen get hosed badly enough...this system makes anything but a spellcaster faen impossible. And giants become the melee gods, once they take their class levels...and can't they become Huge with Giant Paragon?

This falls in the category of those "Why doesn't it work like the regular system?!" comments I got on the previous release of the GnG system. Answer: Because it's not the regular system.

It's like commenting on how poorly a screwdriver drives nails.

I know, untested and all, but it definitely doesn't make people real eager to play smaller races. Bigger sure.

Yep. That's how the rules should work. Remember the key words: LESS CINEMATIC, MORE REALISTIC. Bigger hits harder and takes more damage. In a combat comparison between squirrels, humans, and elephants, who do you think comes out on top? Squishing the squirrel is easy, assuming you can get your hands on it. The elephant will probably ignore attacks from the other two or just get annoyed. Seriously, what's the chance of a human's punch or bite inflicting damage on an elephant?

This is how the GnG system is SUPPOSED to work!

It's always amused me when folks complain about something working like it's supposed to work, expecting it to work like something else. Then, they suggest it works like something else. It needs to be changed into the something else, or it's obviously broken.

It drives me nuts when people complain about the GnG system working like it's SUPPOSED TO WORK, then saying that's a DESIGN FLAW.

Ugh!

I'll say it once and say it again:

1) If the Grim-n-Gritty system does not work for you, DO NOT USE IT!

2) If you do not want big things having an easy time killing little things, DO NOT USE IT!

3) If you want to play a small or tiny creature and have equal footing with the big guys, DO NOT USE IT!

4) If you want cinematic combat, DO NOT USE IT!

----

You may say, "Geez, Ken, you're getting emotional about this. In fact, you're going on a rant."

You are doggone right that I'm going on a rant.

I feel like I'm experiencing the same doggoned conversations I saw when I first released the Grim-n-Gritty rules. There's a whole crowd out there that likes to think they are demonstrating some sort of original thought when they point out that it doesn't work like the regular combat system or that their favorite small furry doesn't seem as tough under the new rules or that big ole dragon they found such an easy target under the normal rules can mop the floor with them under the new rules or that their dagger does not punch a nice hole through plate armor or AGH! AGH! AGH! Then, they give a sniff, put on an intellectual air, and offer in somewhat pious tones, "You know, if you would just make this system more like the normal rules, I would use it, because -- you know -- I really like the normal rules."

THREE YEARS I've been getting messages like this on messageboards and e-mails. Heck, even after I shut down my site, I still get messages to this effect.

It's no wonder I get so worked up.

So, for those folks with those sort of comments (particularly the folks who have never tried the rules in play and never intend to try the rules in play), I write this: "These rules were not made for you."

And again I say, "If you want to use the regular rules, use the regular rules."

I made these rules for one reason: I wanted to play with them.

I offered the rules on the board for two reasons:

1) There's a group of folks out there who are gonna "get" them and dig them. They tend not to be a vocal group. They take the rules, make them theirs, and go to town. And that's that.

I dig that group.

2) I was hoping that folks from that group would give the rules a spin and let me know how they worked in their home games.

Like I've said before (though not in these words), I dig anecdotes from play, not whinin', pissin', and moanin' from speculation or theory.

And, by God and green apples, it gives me a hairlip and conniption when I hear folks complainin' about the rules working like they're supposed to work.

-----

Now, you may say, "Geez, Ken, you're a mean guy."

If you think I'm mean, you should talk to my fourth grade students!

-----

Now, if you wanna help me out and playtest the rules, go ahead. That's why I put them out here.

If you wanna complain and try to one up me by telling me how the rules don't work or don't work right, please, save both yourself and me some time. Seems like everybody gets so busy trying to prove they're smart by showing folks how poorly their rules work or don't meet personal preferences/expectations that they forget good manners and useful discourse.

I put the rules out here hoping to get some help on the playtesting. If you don't want to help, please don't stand in the way.

-----

For those of you who do want to help or who "get" the rules, thanks. You're the folks I appreciate, and the reason I offer stuff for free. I like knowing that you get some enjoyment from things I tinker with in my spare time, and I hope you get a little fun from using them in your game.

Thanks for involving me in your time.

 

[KenHood]

Is there a chance anyone could reformat this real quick as an .rtf file for those of us without MS Word?

Couldn't post it, so I sent you an e-mail of the .rtf version. If you can load it onto the thread, I'd appreciate it.

Seem to recall your handle from a while back.