Grim-n-Gritty: Revised and Simplified

[Pielorinho]

Ok the table listed both Bull Rush (charge) and Bull Rush (attack) so that was what I saw.

Page 124 has the description of Chage and while it doesn't specifically say "there is an AoO for this", the way its worded agrees with how AoOs are given out. You enter a new area and someone should get a swing at you.

Naturaly I can easily be wrong heh

Reread the rules. You NEVER incur an AoO by moving INTO a square: it's only by moving OUT of a square that you get an AoO against you. Specifically, by leaving a threatened square.

With a bull rush, you're moving from the squares a person threatens into their own personal square; that's why you get an AoO. (Well, technically that's not true. Technically they get an AoO because the rules specifically allow one. But this is philosophically why you incur one, and is similar to why you incur one when trying to grapple).

Again, you unambiguously dont' get an AoO during a charge. But rather than hijack this thread further, I'd suggest opening a thread in the rules forum if you don't believe me.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

I'd use base Ref save for Defense bonus for monsters (anything without class levels). This gives the Great Wyrm white dragon a defense bonus of +20 (+16 after size modifier). Considering that characters facing monsters of this CR would be +20 to hit for fighter types I'd say that would balance pretty well.

They're CR 20, right? If a 20th-level fighter can't manage a +36 to hit, she deserves to be smacked into pudding.

Off the top of my head:
+20 BAB, +5 weapon, +1 weapon focus, +8 str (16 start, +5 advancement, +6 item, +1 inherent), +2 luck/morale/divine/misc.

This means that a millennium-old dragon could get hit by a non-epic human well more than half the time. Of course, the 20th-level human could easily have better than a +36 to hit, and indeed SHOULD have better than that if she's hunting dragons.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

They're CR 20, right? If a 20th-level fighter can't manage a +36 to hit, she deserves to be smacked into pudding.

The point is not that a 20th level fighter can hit the dragon, the point is that it seems that it should not be incredibly difficult with a flying beast the size of a house.

Also, wizards must fight them too. A 20th level wizard with 20 dex has only a +19 to hit with any ray attacks. This means that even with true strike, any ray they shoot has a 30-some% chance of missing, and they cannot hit with ray attacks without that. How are these dragons dodging like that?

Using base reflex save is a problem too. 2 great worm white dragons, A & B are fighting. After some circling and testing of distance A charges B and bites him. A rolls a 10 + 36 (attack bonus) + 2 (charging) = 48
B rolls a 10 + 20 (base save) -4 (size) = 26
A rolls 1 above average damage 15 (4d6) + 12 (str) + 12 (size) + 22 (48-26)=61
B's soak is 12(size) + 35 (natural) + 8 (con) = 45
B takes 16 pips of damage and is disabled instantly by an average attack. If BAB had been used the same hit would have done 0 damage, not even wounding B.
If reflex saves are used then large creatures often instantly kill other large creatures.

 

[SSquirrel]

Actually it would be a matter of getting thru the dragon's scales. I mean you're using an axe and those things are freakin thick!

AoO>Yeah taht came up in my group. In 3.0 w/a different group we ran AoOs when you moved in as well. Can you say WAY too many AoOs?



Hagen

 

[Throthvile]

I just recently dicovered Mr. Hood's rules. I, for one, would be glad to have his babies. You see I got Conan from Mongoose not too long ago because I was fed up with high fantasy, common magic crap. I chose Conan because I am already pretty familiar with the D20 system. I am currently trying to develop a low magic fantasy campaign setting using the races from the Player's Handbook and the Conan book for everything else. (with a few dark twists here and there) Then I find the GrimNGritty rules. Now, I am torn betwixt the two rule sets. However, seeing as Mr. Hood's system is infinately less complicated than the one I was working with, I may have just found an easy solution. I plan on using the Conan character classes, but not the weapons anymore(they have higher damage, so I'll just stick to the PHB weapons and fudge the names a bit) GrimNGritty will cover the combat nicely, and then I just need to do some world crafting........

 

[Fenris]

A Feat for Revised Grim and Gritty

Hi All,
I was considering using the following feat with the revised GnG rules. Does it fit with the overall grittiness of the system and is it balanced. Thanks for you input. Also any suggestions for a better name?

Grin and Bear It
This feat allows a character to ignore some of the pain from his injuries.
Prerequisites: Endurance, Toughness, Great Fortitude
Benefit: A character with the Grin and Bear It feat has a penalty of one less to his attack rolls, defense, ability checks and saving throws due to his wound condition. A character then suffers a -1 when severly wounded instead of -2. The character suffers from all other effects resulting from their wound condition. This feat may only be taken once.

 

[SSquirrel]

Hi All,
I was considering using the following feat with the revised GnG rules. Does it fit with the overall grittiness of the system and is it balanced. Thanks for you input. Also any suggestions for a better name?

Grin and Bear It
This feat allows a character to ignore some of the pain from his injuries.
Prerequisites: Endurance, Toughness, Great Fortitude
Benefit: A character with the Grin and Bear It feat has a penalty of one less to his attack rolls, defense, ability checks and saving throws due to his wound condition. A character then suffers a -1 when severly wounded instead of -2. The character suffers from all other effects resulting from their wound condition. This feat may only be taken once.

I think it's balanced fine with the 3 previous feats needed, but I'm not entirely sure on fitting with the feel. Certainly it would make sense that someone who is as tough as you would be with those 3 feats would maybe be able to push the pain away....I don't know if it would go into Ken's document itself, but I think it could be played just fine. Give it a shot an dlet us know. Sadly the best replacement name I can think of is Intestinal Fortitude to help describe that it's just your inner will which keeps you on your feet.

Hagen

 

[SSquirrel]

bumperooni

Hagen

 

[Fenris]

I think it's balanced fine with the 3 previous feats needed, but I'm not entirely sure on fitting with the feel. Certainly it would make sense that someone who is as tough as you would be with those 3 feats would maybe be able to push the pain away....I don't know if it would go into Ken's document itself, but I think it could be played just fine. Give it a shot an dlet us know. Sadly the best replacement name I can think of is Intestinal Fortitude to help describe that it's just your inner will which keeps you on your feet.

Hagen

This would be a house rule certainly. It is gritty if not grim at least But in Ken's example it would have done the poor fighter no good at all. It can be useful certainly but if you're disabled who cares if your penalty goes down to -2 if you still lose a point if your move . Thanks for the feedback though. This would help you keep fighting well through low levels of damage. In Grim and Gritty, that isn't always assured.

 

[Alanbit]

Questions for Ken (About G&G gaming experiences)

Hi ken and you all.

We've addopted your G&G rules in our weekly game and we have some comments, experiences, suggestions and so on we wanted to make you.

First of all, I'd like to sorry for my english, I'll do my best to explain myself with some kinda clarity.

Second of all: Thanks, thanks, and a thousand thanks.

I've seen one of my friends (a ninja) almost cry of emotion when he killed a wizard for THE VERY FIRST time in his PC's life with a deadly and unique shuriken.
Now I can handle a bow and get in the battle (with old rules I stayed behind the warriors just making d8 damage in my turn and wondering what did I wrong to choose an archer, and how was it possible that with normal arrows Legolas could kill as much orcs as Gimli with a broad axe and cleave...). Even I can kill a centinel with ONE ARROW (and some dosis of luck, of course).

Really we've experienced a huge rise of adrenaline in our gaming.
For example. We are 4 players of level 4, and we entered in a small castle and found a Large level 10 humanoid with a Large battle axe. We did what we had to: run. Now we are preparing an ambush to slash the monster. Our DM proposed to play the hypothetical combat, and we did, and we died. Charged 3 of us, 2 of us dead with the oportunity attack. The other was smashed a round after. Obvious when you try to stop a bus at 100km/h with a sword...

We die really fast, but enemies do too. Now we can plot killing the centinel of a castle with a knife, we really get frightened when a Huge Monster roars, and we've found really interesting your system.

I was searching for your email address to send you a pair of suggestions on the rules on points not treated neither by you nor the traditional D&D, but as I could read, maybe you've said 'nuff of getting tons of email, so I'll post them here and you tell me what do you think about.
I'm making this post too long, so I'll just write in short the esence of the stuff.

D&D Rules and G&G Rules let our PC's stay awaken and fighting for a week.
We wanted more realism and created a very very simple system of Fatigue, so now the players have to manage to survive to large deadly creatures...and then take a rest!!
This rule is quite interesting for it's simplicity and we are now in testing time, but results are quite realistics.

The other rule was about real speed of a character. 30 Feet are not a number, 2 humans in a dessert (none of them a monk) will always run the same? Of course not. We've created another simple rule for this, but I don't know if it's exportable, because of the metrical system we use.

I'm not gonna define now them with it's examples, I'm getting you bored,
but we wanted to know your opinion on these points.

After years and years playing, we try to avoid complications and non-logical points, and your rules help us to keep it simple (quick), logic (realistic) and funny (really funny).

Oscar Alvarez
Barcelona - Spain - Europe