[Grim Tales] Spell Burn, something other than Str?

[Hjorimir]

I’m looking to modify the mechanic for spell burn in Grim Tales. While I love the magic system over all, I don’t really want a bunch of muscle-bound wizards running around my campaign world…call it personal tastes.

Con is obviously slated for spells outside an adepts particular scope or for casting spells beyond one’s talents (this is such a great mechanic), so I don’t want to touch that. Thematically speaking, I love how the Str burn weakens the caster. But, as I stated above, I don’t want casters molded into something that needs to be buff.

Has anybody modified this somehow or replaced it with something else entirely? Non-lethal damage feels a bit weak in comparison to the Str damage, so I’m not sure I want to go there.

Maybe some kind of mechanic where there are effects of casting spells (i.e. fatigued, exhausted, confused, stunned, etc.) with the understanding that Con damage would be on top of this for the standard criteria?

I saw Old One mention something about Horror checks, but that was for more powerful versions of the spell. It seems like a neat idea though.

 

[BryonD]

I agree with you.

As much as I love GT, the STR fueled magi thing doesn't sit well with me for the same reason you mentioned.

I know Wulf hates this idea, but I like to use WIS instead. I think it gives some really cool flavor in addition to avoiding the brawn based magic thing.

If you use Arcane casters they risk temporary (or maybe permanent depending on how cruel you are with fumbles) insanity when they mess with mystic powers.

Divine casters however, have a buffer because as their WIS drops, they lose the ability to cast spells. In effect their WIS becomes of measure of their faith. As they lose WIS it represents their inability to keep asking for more blessings and actually expect to receive them. WIS gets down to 9 and they are feeling so insecure about it that they can't do anything until they recover. It is very hard to get seriously harmed, but the trade is a lower magic battery supply.

It works for me.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Grab the player's hand and cut off one finger joint per point of spell burn.

Of course, following this line of reasoning will only encourage players with really thick fingers to join your game.

 

[BryonD]

Wouldn't thick fingers just mean more pain.....

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I like nonlethal, and I've used fatigue (using a fatigue save system).

Fatigue seemed ... give and take. If you don't add some constant accrual (I used NL damage) then casting became a situation where the caster would bully through saves one by one until they hit a failure, then stop until they'd resolved the condition before moving on.

I don't find STR to be that bad ... I read a fantasy story somewhere, forget where, with wizards whose magic sapped large amounts of personal energy from them in terms of bodily fuel-stuffs ... muscle, bone ... fat. So wizards would get themselves big and fat, rotund, before they performed feats of magical strain, which would leave them thin. It's DIFFERENT ... but could be cool.

Using NL and fatigue levels worked out well ... higher-magic than the GT standard, I'd say, but I was running a High Fantasy D&D Style experimental game ... which worked out quite well, I must say.

--fje

 

[Old One]

Heap,

Would you mind posting your interplay between non-lethal and fatigue (since I love to steal all your ideas )?

~ OO

 

[Cheiromancer]

Why does Wulf hate Wisdom damage? Is it the divine casters? If so, they can lose intelligence.

Rather than being physically buff, capable wizards would have to be wise. Capable divine casters would have to be smart.

Or you could make it a 3-way cycle; get the spontaneous arcane casters involved too.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Actually, now that Wulf mentioned it, I am really enamoured of the idea of having different stats affected by burn depending on the school of the spell being cast.

 

[whydirt]

I like the idea that each spell has a different set of drawbacks, i.e. Burning Hands might drain Strength, but Summon Monster I might have a chance of fatigue and Charisma drain.

Especially since in many Grim Tales games there won't be a lot of spells available, you can make each one that much more unique and 'magical'.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Heap,

Would you mind posting your interplay between non-lethal and fatigue (since I love to steal all your ideas )?

~ OO

Not at all. One loves to be loved, after all.

For the game I ran I used this system --

Spell Burn: Up the die by one type (d6 -> d8) make it nonlethal. Apply everything as-usual (including burn resistance). After each spellcasting ATTEMPT, the character must make a Will or Fort save, DC = 10 + NL taken, with an accruing -1 penalty per spell cast in the last hour.

Failing one of the saves incurs a level of fatigue. Failing the save by >5 incurs 2 levels of fatigue. Fatigue runs from Winded -> Fatigued -> Exhausted -> Uncon. The Winded condition is as Fatigued, but goes away after 1 hr.

Mark that this was for a more magic-intensive game. I even went wild and handed out Flaming Hands for the playtest arcane caster. Which he used quite a bit, and made about 2/3 of his saves. It was rather fun watching the guy jockey about the playing field trying to get that 2d4 area effect off WITHOUT getting himself fragged by melee in the process and without taking any fatigue.

While this system worked quite well, I think over a long term I might become unhappy with the number of dice rolled to work out a spell ... a fighter attacks ... roll to hit, roll for damage, damage applied, attack resolved. A wizard casts a spell ... roll Spellcraft, roll Burn, roll Burn Save, roll damage, roll save ... etc. It wasn't TOO bad in my playtest, though, and the guy playing the caster said he had a hoot.

--fje