[Grim Tales] Spell Burn, something other than Str?

[Wulf Ratbane]

Why does Wulf hate Wisdom damage?

I don't hate Wisdom damage.

I just reject the notion that all spellcasters are going to buff their Strength.

Spell burn is so bad that having 1 or 2 points more in Strength really doesn't translate to a greatly increased capacity for spellcasting.

I use (and Grim Tales recommends) point buy or the elite array, and it just doesn't make any sense to sacrifice any one of a number of other important attributes for the ability to cast, perhaps, one more spell.

When you set out to create a spellcaster in GT, you simply accept that casting spells is something you do under the direst circumstances. Pimping your Strength during character creation is... well, let us instead say that the instinct to change this function of the design is a GM's knee-jerk reaction (however justifiably so it may seem to cry, "Spellcasting is tied to Strength! All wizards will be Conan!"), and not really based on a rational analysis of the mechanics at all.

Wulf

 

[Hammerhead]

Even Conan-esque spellcasters tend to suck in regards to both HP and AC; as such, their high STRs will only be used to power spellcasting since melee is suicide, whereas high DEX and CON benefit the would-be wizard in every situation.

 

[BryonD]

When you set out to create a spellcaster in GT, you simply accept that casting spells is something you do under the direst circumstances. Pimping your Strength during character creation is... well, let us instead say that the instinct to change this function of the design is a GM's knee-jerk reaction (however justifiably so it may seem to cry, "Spellcasting is tied to Strength! All wizards will be Conan!"), and not really based on a rational analysis of the mechanics at all.

Wulf

STR Fueled magic isn't a new thing.
GURPS worked in a very similiar manner.
I used to play a lot of GURPS and the reaction is anything but knee-jerk.
I did run one GT game with the system as designed and, sure enough, the caster's best traits were INT then STR.
I predicted the result and saw it happen right out of the gate. That pretty well makes it rational in my book.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I did run one GT game with the system as designed and, sure enough, the caster's best traits were INT then STR.
I predicted the result and saw it happen right out of the gate. That pretty well makes it rational in my book.

Far be it from me to suggest that players the world over are anything but the most incorrigible min-maxers.

So... about that caster of yours with a 14 STR. Broke the game? Did you observe and analyze the effect beyond character creation?

The only observable effect I can deduce from the information you provided so far is that a player was forced to make a tough (and, as it will prove out, sub-par) decision about where to allocate his starting array of ability scores. He's placed his +2 bonus into his STR when it would have been better served in CON, or DEX, or even WIS (for Will saves).

So, maybe a 13 would have been just as good. Of course, once you've decided you can settle for a 13, you realize you can settle for a 12, and so on.


Wulf

 

[BryonD]

It didn't break anything. I never claimed it did.

But the WIS version is more fun.

I like fun.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It didn't break anything. I never claimed it did.

But the WIS version is more fun.

I like fun.

Particularly if you also include Horror checks!

 

[Hjorimir]

Oh, I'm not concerned about high-Str adepts breaking the game. I just don't really like them for thematic reasons.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I don't understand the fear of high-STR casters either. The higher it is, the more likely he is to cast spells, and then it isn't going to be high very long. It's self correcting, so long as you are keeping with the spirit of GT and not letting them off the hook when it comes to resisting burn.

 

[Hjorimir]

I don't understand the fear of high-STR casters either. The higher it is, the more likely he is to cast spells, and then it isn't going to be high very long. It's self correcting, so long as you are keeping with the spirit of GT and not letting them off the hook when it comes to resisting burn.

Okay, I re-read my original post. I said nothing about being afraid for game balance or being worried about powerful casters. There is no fear. What I was talking about was just a point of preference.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Oh, I'm not concerned about high-Str adepts breaking the game. I just don't really like them for thematic reasons.

Thematically, the difference between a 10 STR and a 14 STR is negligible. It's an invisible and completely arbitrary thing.

I mean, really, in your campaign, as folks walk down the street, as PCs interact with NPCs, is there a tangible or visible difference between the folks with the 14 STR and those with a 10?

More to the point, is there a large, granular, visible and tangible difference between 10, 12, 13, and 14?

So... Thematically-- well, get over it.

Mechanically, I hope we've already dispensed with. I assure you that the wizards who are buffing their STR will be dominated by the wizards with the DEX, CON, and WIS to nullify, over the long term, the short term advantage of being able to cast an extra spell.

I do sit around wondering whether the folks who are bothered by this are using the elite array or point buy, or the usual crackpot 4d6-drop-the-lowest scheme. Assigning the elite array requires some tough decisions.

Wulf