[Gripe] Gamers are really getting spoiled

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I had been eagerly anticipating the Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games since I heard about it at Gen Con. So, I was disappointed to hear from a poster on this Web site that he had found the binding to be very flimsy. So, I hesitated to buy a copy, especially online. But after a couple of times going to the local gaming store and verifying that the binding was just fine (so far), I realized that I will have to buy my own copy soon enough and made the purchase there.

I don't know if this was just a competitor who was jealous or maybe the binding was flimsy for that particular poster. But I think people have to realize that this is a niche hobby and from what I understand many of these companies only sell a few thousand copies (worldwide!) of their books. So, the prices and quality are (generally) more than fair right now.

Well since I started the thread over at Necromancer games site about how they had a problem with thier binding, and it seems that I was not the only one to have the problem. Considering I took the book back and got another copy that had the same problems I think I am perfectly justified in griping about it.

 

[Will]

One thing most gamers honestly don't realize is how marginal the industry is.

Yes, they know it's a small market, but that's as far as most go.

Game books have a razor thin margin, such that any delays or other financial wrinkles can kill a company, dead dead dead.

Furthermore, did you realize that writers are paid the same now as they were in 1926? Hugo Gernsbeck, creator of Amazing Stories, paid 3 cents a word. This is about on par with starting writers now... and not a few companies pay less.

Inflation, of course, means that effectively writers are paid 1/10th what they were 76 years ago.

Meanwhile, consider the escalating production values. I mean, 1926... ragpaper pulps? Compare products now to those 20 years ago.


All of this means that everybody in the industry is basically working their asses off to keep things from hitting the ground. It _is_ a labor of love, and the only reason it works at all is because people want it to.

Complaints about quality or companies 'gouging' customers just get a bitter chuckle from me, I'm afraid.

Considering the circumstances, it's a miracle every other word isn't misspelled and the print doesn't stick to your fingers.


Ah well.

 

[mythago]

Considering the circumstances, it's a miracle every other word isn't misspelled and the print doesn't stick to your fingers.

What nonsense. And in addition, what an insult to the professionals in the industry who DO care about whether their products fall apart after one reading, who stay up till the wee hours fixing typos and pruning errata, who spend far more time than they really have to double-check their sources and made sure everything fits.

Don't make excuses for the failures of the lazy and incompetent. If the whole industry is 'marginal,' then why doesn't everything suck?

 

[JeffB]

Seems to me then that the industry has the problem. RPG writers are not forced to work in those jobs, they choose to. I have no sympathy for them in that respect. Labor of love or not, If it’s MY dollar that I worked MY A$$ off to get then you can be darn sure I’m going to complain or criticize (in a constructive manner). If people cannot handle that, then they should try another line of work where job performance doesn’t matter. I’m not going to accept products regardless of quality, just because it’s hobby, and I’m “glad to have them”. That’s ridiculous.

Now complaining about one’s differences in taste is a different matter. But the result is the same, I vote with my wallet. I let my Dragon & Dungeon subs lapse when I realized the magazines no longer suited my taste and needs/wants (not to mention the publisher’s postings here at ENWorld just rub me the wrong way). Same thing goes for just about all of the other WOTC products, since the direction WOTC has gone with 3E/D20 does not match my own tastes whatsoever in the last year and a half or so. Instead of MMII, I picked up ToH. Instead of D20 modern, I picked up Spycraft. Instead of D20 Star Wars, I picked the old WEG D6 system. Instead of the WOTC 3E modules, I pick from various other manufacturers like Necromancer, KenzerCo., etc.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I'm really not advocating bad editing. I can excuse some editing mistakes, but I can't excuse it if they're common, or if they start with lots of typos and end with incomplete or run-on sentences. Those are easy to fix. With regards to editing, what I am saying is that even with a professional editor onboard, we will see some small problems here and there and that's normal and to be expected.

The size of the industy is very small depending on what aspect you are looking at. Wizards D&D books, I would assume, sell pretty well and make them money (at least that's what they keep saying). Dragon and Dungeon sell a fraction of what the core products sell. The D20 audience is a fraction of the size of the Dragon/Dungeon audience. We need to look at things in that regard. There is less excuse for Wizards D&D products to have problems than there are for D20 products.

 

[Draxus the Tainted]

You're tired of hearing people gripe about stuff, but you do it yourself...wierd...

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Ill stop complaining about Dragon Magazine when Dragon Magazine stops having obvious typos on its cover.

 

[Will]

What nonsense. And in addition, what an insult to the professionals in the industry who DO care about whether their products fall apart after one reading, who stay up till the wee hours fixing typos and pruning errata, who spend far more time than they really have to double-check their sources and made sure everything fits.

Don't make excuses for the failures of the lazy and incompetent. If the whole industry is 'marginal,' then why doesn't everything suck?

You deftly missed the point.

Everything doesn't suck because people care about it and do much more work than the customers are willing to pay for. They are driven, and that's why things don't suck.

As for JeffB, tell you what... nobody is forced to be a bus driver. So if everyone decided that they are only worth, oh, $1 an hour, that'd just be tough for them, eh?

Each of you, whatever you do for a living, imagine you are now making 1/2 minimum wage and criticized by just about anyone. Don't like it? Do something else. But there isn't minimum wage or unions or anything for writers.


The problem is this... if everyone does go do something else, where does that leave us? I, for one, would actually like a viable game industry and cool products.

The second problem is that people _are_ voting for their wallets. They are voting for cheap, fast, unprofessional work. No matter what words they type or come out of their mouth... that's what customers are voting for.


And, to bring it back to the beginning... the fact that work is done, overall, _so_ much better than the customers are paying for (or appreciating) is the miracle. That people work so hard to produce stuff under rediculously bad circumstances.

 

[mythago]

You deftly missed the point.

No, actually you reiterated my own point for me. Thanks.

I'm a writer. So are a lot of people posting in ENworld. Explaining how crappy the pay is and how annoying the customers are, well, you're preaching to the choir. But it's still no excuse for shoddy work.

If writer A is slaving away for the love of the hobby and puts out a nice, finished, well-written work, what's B's excuse for printing crap? B's customers should be grateful that B is writing at all? A is a fool for putting in so much effort? Really, explain this.

 

[jdavis]

There is a difference between criticizing and just griping to get attention. Yes Neagative comments get more attention, and yes it is cool to hate everything. I won't touch the Dragon Magazine topic because I know nothing about it, and really have no concern there, don't like it drop your subscription, they start loosing money they will look into why.

Gaming is a business, if the product is bad then it won't continue to sell. If you don't like a product then you should stop buying their stuff, I have seen people post about companies putting out poor products and stating things like " I have three of their books and they all suck." Well that doesn't make you look very bright, if their books are crap then stop buying them. The vast majority of the people I have read post by here are pretty smart and can back up their opinions but it seems the people who just want to gripe about everything tend to show up all over the place just to put their two cents in on how bad things are.

I don't believe you should mindlessly accept a poor product and be happy about it but I also believe there is alot of people who just like to stir the pot and run their mouths. Heated discussions between inteligent people are great, they get people to think.