Gritty vs. Cinematic (a.k.a. edition war??)

[Belen]

Then there is Iron Heroes. Iron Heroes was created for the Sword & Sorcery crowd. Characters can integrate their attacks with stunts, skill checks, and the players have a greater choice as to "how" they attack.

See...this is even more tactical than 3.5. I would not consider these options cinematic either. They may have a cool factor, but we're still talking about rules option/definition versus imagination.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Gritty is not the opposite of cinematic. You can have a cinematic, gritty game: characters can fly through the air blasting John Woo style two-fisted gunplay and die if just one of those bullets hits them. You can have a non-cinematic, non-gritty game: I hit the giant, repeat as necessary (and that's a lot of necessity!).

CINEMATIC (as the style of an RPG)

The suggested bonuses from creative description outweigh (or replace entirely) the bonuses from formal rules.

GRITTY (as the style of an RPG)

Death is easy and common, and remains so even at higher levels.

See...this is even more tactical than 3.5. I would not consider these options cinematic either. They may have a cool factor, but we're still talking about rules option/definition versus imagination.

Actually, I'm fairly sure we're talking about unified rules to arbitrate imaginative actions. I don't have IH yet ( ), but that's what Mike Mearls' earlier stunts system in the Book of Iron Might was about.

 

[Henry]

Gritty implies that the characters are frail and incredibly mortal. Grim Tales is excellent for grim and gritty rules.

In my experience, what was gritty about first edition was that we expected PCs to die.

To me, both of these are examples of Grim, not gritty. Where "Grim" implies frailty and mortality, "Gritty" implies pluckiness, willingness to face danger, but also implies "granulated" or "specific." Normally, they go together, as most times you see "grim and gritty" it goes into specifics about what can happen to you. Hit points would not be gritty, whereas hit locations and levels of severity might be. A system can be both, but don't have to be. I could make a system where all PCs have 1 hit point, and if they don't parry, they're dead. That's grim, but not gritty and VERY direct, and not very adventurous, as most players would play like opportunistic rats (if they played at all).