Grognard good...grognard bad

[Zhaleskra]

So where would "happy with what I have"/"recovered from shiny new toy syndrome" fit? Am I still a grognard if this describes me, or do I have to tell the dang kids to git off my lawn first?

 

[Obryn]

So where would "happy with what I have"/"recovered from shiny new toy syndrome" fit? Am I still a grognard if this describes me, or do I have to tell the dang kids to git off my lawn first?

It depends! Are you filled with angst and/or melancholy when other groups are having fun with shiny new games that you don't personally like?

-O

 

[Zhaleskra]

It depends! Are you filled with angst and/or melancholy when other groups are having fun with shiny new games that you don't personally like?

-O

It used to be that. Now I'm just like "Ok, have fun, not my thing." Especially when I see shiny new games being run and played in a manner that keeps my interest at zero.

 

[Desdichado]

So where would "happy with what I have"/"recovered from shiny new toy syndrome" fit? Am I still a grognard if this describes me, or do I have to tell the dang kids to git off my lawn first?

That's really a misconception. Even if you're not old and grumpy, I've never understood why you'd want kids hanging out on your lawn.

 

[maddman75]

It used to be that. Now I'm just like "Ok, have fun, not my thing." Especially when I see shiny new games being run and played in a manner that keeps my interest at zero.

Zhaleskra, recovered grognard.

See kids, there is hope if you fall into grognardism.

One issue I want to take up, as it is a favorite of the self-professed grognard, is the 'play skill' mentioned in the quotes from the Tyranny of Fun thread. The position espoused there says that harsh play, where the GM kills, cripples, destroys items, or in other ways damages characters for the slightest miscalculation will have a Dungeons and Bootstraps effect, creating players who are highly skilled.

I disagree completely. I don't consider "Being paranoid and memorizing the Monster Manual" to be skilled play. In my game it would be dysfunctional play, as the properties of monsters would not be as published and certain death is not waiting around every corner. I don't think those things bring fun experiences. Nothing against those that do, but saying that this is 'skilled play' and my way is 'mediocrity' is explicitly saying 'my game is right and yours is wrong'.

Which also, is the heart of grognardism.

 

[ExploderWizard]

One issue I want to take up, as it is a favorite of the self-professed grognard, is the 'play skill' mentioned in the quotes from the Tyranny of Fun thread. The position espoused there says that harsh play, where the GM kills, cripples, destroys items, or in other ways damages characters for the slightest miscalculation will have a Dungeons and Bootstraps effect, creating players who are highly skilled.

I disagree completely. I don't consider "Being paranoid and memorizing the Monster Manual" to be skilled play. In my game it would be dysfunctional play, as the properties of monsters would not be as published and certain death is not waiting around every corner. I don't think those things bring fun experiences. Nothing against those that do, but saying that this is 'skilled play' and my way is 'mediocrity' is explicitly saying 'my game is right and yours is wrong'.

Which also, is the heart of grognardism.

Yes it is indeed a shame that such things as common sense, logical thought process, and problem solving ability are referenced as some sort of "player skill".

This stuff used to be part of just, well.. regular gameplay.

 

[Desdichado]

I don't consider "Being paranoid and memorizing the Monster Manual" to be skilled play. In my game it would be dysfunctional play, as the properties of monsters would not be as published and certain death is not waiting around every corner.

Yes it is indeed a shame that such things as common sense, logical thought process, and problem solving ability are referenced as some sort of "player skill".

Wow. Worst. Paraphrase. Ever.

This stuff used to be part of just, well.. regular gameplay.

Nothing against those that do, but saying that this is 'skilled play' and my way is 'mediocrity' is explicitly saying 'my game is right and yours is wrong'.

Which also, is the heart of grognardism.

Are you tag-teaming on purpose to make this point?

 

[ExploderWizard]

Wow. Worst. Paraphrase. Ever.


Are you tag-teaming on purpose to make this point?

The last quote you attributed to me was not actually mine.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I don't consider "Being paranoid and memorizing the Monster Manual" to be skilled play. In my game it would be dysfunctional play, as the properties of monsters would not be as published and certain death is not waiting around every corner.

Yeah, I agree with this. It seems wrong to me that 'skilled play' should be attached to a particular, highly gamist, play style.

Skilled play can take many forms. To me, the skillful player is the one who is good at entertaining all the other participants, not the uber-cautious guy who, frankly, I find boring.

 

[Herschel]

Yes it is indeed a shame that such things as common sense, logical thought process, and problem solving ability are referenced as some sort of "player skill".

This stuff used to be part of just, well.. regular gameplay.

*shrugs*

It could also be summed up conversely as spending vast amounts of time (time more well-adjusted people spend on jobs and social encounters) holed up in your mother's basement examining every rule and combo ad nauseum so you can cover up for a lack of quick thinking is no replacement for skill.

You can put a negative spin on it all you want any way you want, in the end it's just working to create stereotypes in a forum where many complain about said stereotypes.

Gamer hypocrisy is no less than political hypocrisy, we just get to roll more dice and don't have groupies or interns.