Grognard's First Take On 4e

[Hussar]

Why is it when someone is critical of something 4e, we keep seeing folks trot out the tired excuse of "you havent seen 4e yet?

KotS is their very first shot at showcasing 4e. Its not exactly inspiring from what other people have said in reading it:

Heck even orcus has a complaint or two.

Wotc should have done a better job with the preview out of the gate.

To be fair though, it also depends on the intellectual honesty of the reviewer as well. We've seen a number of reviews starting from very, very hostile positions, which is going to skew the review heavily as well. I've seen more than a few "reviews" start with, "I hate 4e, I'm going to stick with 3.x/Pathfinder/whatever but, I bought this 4e product and now I'm going to spew vitriol all over it." Less common have been reviews starting with, "I love the idea of 4e, I'm going to change to 4e no matter what, now, listen as I sing the praises of the new edition."

I'm sure they're there, they just haven't really stuck out as much in my mind as the former kind of review.

Whether the preview is good or not, depends on a lot of things. Claiming, at this point, that the preview is a failure is somewhat premature. If nothing else, the level of buzz it generated makes it a success. How many modules can you think of that have every board dedicated to D&D talking about it?

 

[carmachu]

To be fair though, it also depends on the intellectual honesty of the reviewer as well. We've seen a number of reviews starting from very, very hostile positions, which is going to skew the review heavily as well. I've seen more than a few "reviews" start with, "I hate 4e, I'm going to stick with 3.x/Pathfinder/whatever but, I bought this 4e product and now I'm going to spew vitriol all over it." Less common have been reviews starting with, "I love the idea of 4e, I'm going to change to 4e no matter what, now, listen as I sing the praises of the new edition."

The problem is.....as much as some gronads complain without looking, I see WAY too may pro-4e folks jump like rabid wolverines on any criticism.

KotS was subpar for their very first release to showcase 4e. I wont say failure, becuase folks are buying it. But everything I heard makes me put money back in teh wallet rather than shell it out.

 

[Hussar]

The problem is.....as much as some gronads complain without looking, I see WAY too may pro-4e folks jump like rabid wolverines on any criticism.

KotS was subpar for their very first release to showcase 4e. I wont say failure, becuase folks are buying it. But everything I heard makes me put money back in teh wallet rather than shell it out.

Why do you consider it subpar, keeping in mind the limitations (no core books to reference, page count, pregen characters, module format) that they were under?

 

[carmachu]

Why do you consider it subpar, keeping in mind the limitations (no core books to reference, page count, pregen characters, module format) that they were under?

Judging by various reviews of it, even from very pro-4e people. Their words, keep in mind, for a $30 price tag(or a bit cheaper on amazon):

"I really think the adventure is generic. Come on, arent we all about done fighting kobolds for goodness sake. There are ways to spice things up a bit. The dungeon is generic. The themes basic. There is no real interaction of note in the village. It is a very underwhelming adventure."

"The "adventure book" doesnt have a cover, it is just saddle stitched cheesy flimsy paper. Really disappointing. For a company that has been all about usability at the game table for 4E, that was a MAJOR disappointment for me."

"The quality of the paper is annoying at this cost level. Smudges all over the place and boy does it pick up finger prints. "

"There is not alot of content there. Very little in the way of roleplaying. Just lots of encounters strung together. Its like a bad movie script. Does very little to show off the great things about 4E, which I think is a shame. Clearly, the DMG wasnt done when they wrote this thing. The DMG has a real cool trap stat block. This adventure doesnt use it. Rushed. Weak. Unoriginal. Flimsy. Linear. Forced."


minor one:

"Mini intensive. Okay, maybe it's me but if I'm in charge of Dungeons of Dread, I make sure that the starter set has all of the pregenerated players and major bad guys as opposed to some interesting figs that really don't matter to anything outside of themselves. The first encounter is with eight enemies. This doesn't count the PC's so we're up to 13 minis for the first encounter. "



Those are just some I've read, for your VERY FIRST product out the door as a showcase 4e. Its not a product that seems to jump out at me, grab me and say "WOW!"

Forget that it doesnt have complete 4e rules. Or reference....its the first 4e product that showcases it. Its quality seems subpar from the reviews thus far as a product.

 

[carmachu]

Hussar:

Someone elsewhere made an interesting point.....


"The big error was this should have been out a month or two ago, now, so close to the rules being released its function is diminished as you can just get a PHB at the same cost to get a feel for the game over having this. That alone makes it not worth it in my opinion."

 

[Steely Dan]

Come on, arent we all about done fighting kobolds for goodness sake.

Funnily enough, in my 20 years or so with this bizarre game, I have yet to experience an encounter with kobolds, as a DM or player, though to be fair, I'm almost always the DM, so I guess that says something.

…That I was burnt on kobolds (and orcs – never used them) pretty much the day I got in on this game.

But I am disappointed to hear about KotS, I was going to pick it up at The London Dungeon on the 6th of June along with my core bundle, but now I'm not sure.

I have never run pre-generated anything (modules, NPCs, towns etc), so once I have the actual books it will be of absolutely no use to me.