D&D (2024) Group Checks?

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Given enough time, any discussion about d&d 2024 will inevitably become about the stealth rules.

Can't we just wait for the sage advice/errata to drop? There's no point in arguing which interpretation of the rules is correct until then.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Seems like a superb way to keep a party from trying stealthy approaches.

Or... It's a superb way to:

1. Inspire more players to choose some non-combat (stealth) options when building their characters, especially if stealth is going to be an important approach option.
2. Encourage a party to use resources to overcome challenges outside of combat, like magic or magic items, or rarely-used class abilities.
3. Get players to research/ask questions about the environment to find alternatives.
4. Risk it and the consequences anyway because doing so tells a story, and you can fail forward (fights can be fun!)

 

[prabe]

Or... It's a superb way to:

1. Inspire more players to choose some non-combat (stealth) options when building their characters, especially if stealth is going to be an important approach option.
2. Encourage a party to use resources to overcome challenges outside of combat, like magic or magic items, or rarely-used class abilities.
3. Get players to research/ask questions about the environment to find alternatives.
4. Risk it and the consequences anyway because doing so tells a story, and you can fail forward (fights can be fun!)

Same-same.

 

[Yaarel]

I agree with you here, but why is then a re-roll necessary in your game?

If someone is out in the open, it needs to feel plausible to me. (Narrative adjudication.)

Someone is "hiding" up on a high ceiling, fine. But there is always the chance someone happens to look up then "finds" the person. That is why I prefer rerolls every round, until the hider is actually out of line of sight.

I would rule that climbing at the ceiling might be (depending on the context) not in line of sight and the hidden condition is still up. No additional role, because they already succeeded in hiding before that. But in general yes hiding is always a bit dependent on DM adjudication and I think is a perfectly solvable situation with a bit of common sense and good faith interpretation.

 

[prabe]

If someone is out in the open, it needs to feel plausible to me. (Narrative adjudication.)

Someone is "hiding" up on a high ceiling, fine. But there is always the chance someone happens to look up then "finds" the person. That is why I prefer rerolls every round, until the hider is actually out of line of sight.

If the situation doesn't change--the hider is still on the ceiling, the seeker is still on the floor and seeking--I'd probably let the roll/s stand until it did. Otherwise you're just rolling until they fail. If I want hiding on the ceiling to have a limited shelf-life, I'll tell the player, and let their roll determine what that shelf-life is.

 

[the Jester]

Thus reinstating the “never try stealth if anyone uses heavy armor” rule.

Remember, if you play with a paladin, stealth is not an option.

Send the rogue (and maybe druid, and maybe bard, and maybe wizard... etc) ahead to scout or accept that the odds of being stealthy are low.

Heck, I've seen an entire party switch to studded leather to enable a stealth mission. It's not that it can't happen. It's that some players will stubbornly refuse to play into any amount of realism that gives them any disadvantage at all.

 

[Yaarel]

If I want hiding on the ceiling to have a limited shelf-life, I'll tell the player, and let their roll determine what that shelf-life is.

Thats fair. If the DM decides the ceiling hider succeeds, but seems unsustainable, communicate that to the player.

 

[prabe]

Send the rogue (and maybe druid, and maybe bard, and maybe wizard... etc) ahead to scout or accept that the odds of being stealthy are low.

Heck, I've seen an entire party switch to studded leather to enable a stealth mission. It's not that it can't happen. It's that some players will stubbornly refuse to play into any amount of realism that gives them any disadvantage at all.

Maybe because the character built for heavy armor (probably) has crap for dex and no proficiency, so they're sacrificing survivability for no appreciable increase in their odds of success.

 

[prabe]

Thats fair. If the DM decides the ceiling hider succeeds, but seems unsustainable, communicate that to the player.

Yeah, I just find "roll until you fail" painful in play. If a given table is fine with it, that's fine for them.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You could also argue that RAW you only ask for checks if there is a possibility to fail. If somebody leves concealment and steps in line of sight there is no need to roll on perception its auto-success and the enemy spots you, stopping the hidden condition according to the rules.

Or alternatively it autofails as they cannot see you because you are invisible.