Grr. Return of the King makes me angry.

[KenM]

My friend Jim said there was enough in the Lord of the Rings books that they could have done 3 movies for each of the books. 3 for Fellowship, 3 for Two Towers, 3 for Return of the King.


Edited for spelling

 

[barsoomcore]

WARNING: The Two Towers spoilers!

AND if we had six movies, there would have been time to Scour the Shire.

Heck, if we HADN'T had an extra "Orcs on Monsters!" battle in The Two Towers, along with poor Dominic Monahan having to portentuously announce everything we're seeing as we're seeing it ("A shepherd of the trees!" "The army of Isengard!"), and ten minutes of bad water effects, we might have had time to Scour the Shire anyway.

The Two Towers is a BAD movie. I like it cause it has swordfighting and monsters and Miranda Otto and Liv Tyler and a little bit of Cate Blanchett, but it's just bad. Bad dialogue (or worse, good dialogue made incomprehensible by having the characters (I'm thinking of the early scenes of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli) speaking their lines while quite clearly not within fifty yards of their friends), heavy-handed foreshadowing ("They say the trees can talk... even MOOOOOVVVVVEEE...." (poor Dominic Monahan)), and even more heavy-handed "comic relief" (poor John Rhys-Davies -- at least in FotR he got some powerful moments), and worst of all (this just might rank as the most parenthesised sentence I've ever written), a massive battle scene occupying the final quarter of the film that ends with no sign of any suffering on the good guys' parts. It's bizarre; at one moment the Hornburg is swarming with orcs pouring in from all sides and you're expecting a massacre, the next moment you see the Rohhirim abandoning the walls in a more-or-less orderly fashion, and then they're inside the hall and there's apparently only six people left alive (after we've just watched dozens run inside), and then they ride out -- and there's no registering of any price having been paid for this battle.

It's all very comic-book-y (in the bad, juvenile sense), and it robs what ought to be a heartwrenching, desperate stand of the weight and power it deserves.

A lot of people die at Helm's Deep. And they die in the movie, we see them dying in the early part of the fight. But once the Hornburg falls, there's no sign of death anymore, and I just find the whole thing very unsatisfying.

Whew. Slight rant, there. Sorry about that.

I think The Fellowship of the Ring is one of the all-time greatest movie adventures ever created. It's an amazing piece of work. But the subsequent two films are bitter disappointments to me.

Don't even get me started on what they did to Eowyn's moment of glory. GRRRRRR....

/me goes off to unwind somehow, muttering, "It's only a movie, lad..."

 

[ddvmor]

My friend Jim said ...

And Big Al says dogs can't look up!

 

[Viking Bastard]

My friend Jim said there was enough in the Lord of the Rings books that they could have done 3 movies for each of the books. 3 for Fellowship, 3 for Two Towers, 3 for Return of the King.

Definately.

Very dull movies, granted, but...

 

[diaglo]

I'm watching the end of Return of the King, and I'm just frustrated at the small mistakes.

i completely agree. THe movies Suck when compared to the books.

the books are 1000000000 bajillion times better.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

AND if we had six movies, there would have been time to Scour the Shire.

And that would be good why? If there's one way the movies improved on the books, it's the removal of the truly contrived and extraneous Scouring of the Shire.

The movie of Return of the King has its faults, but I think this is one thing they definitely got right.

 

[Raven Crowking]

And that would be good why? If there's one way the movies improved on the books, it's the removal of the truly contrived and extraneous Scouring of the Shire.

The movie of Return of the King has its faults, but I think this is one thing they definitely got right.

Sorry, but I hardly see the Scouring as contrived or extraneous.

Related to its being contrived: We know from FotR and TT that Saruman has learned of the Shire from Gandalf, and that he believes that the Ring is there. He sends mannish half-orc spies to Bree and the Shire to seek out the Ring, long before the book opens. The Miller's son, Ted Sandyman, is likely an agent of Saruman, and he has agents in the Shire who are sending him Longbottom Leaf. Indeed, within the context of the books, Sauron is decades behind Saruman in learning about the Shire.

On top of this, Saruman knows that Gandalf's task is the fight against Sauron. He knows this because it was to be his task as well. So, once that fight is done, Gandalf's role in Middle Earth is pretty much over. Saruman knows that Gandalf will not oppose him in the Shire, so he has only the "rat folk of the Shire" to deal with.

Finally, Saruman is vengeful. In the book, when they meet him on the road, he telegraphs his plans even though the hobbits do not understand him.

Related to extraneous:

Destroying the Ring was not meant to destroy all evil forever, regardless of what the movies implied. Destroying the Ring merely removed one great evil. The Scouring of the Shire acts as a reminder that evil still exists in Middle Earth. As Sauron was a shadow of Morgoth, so Saruman is a shadow of Sauron. The implication is that, as the Valar's powers (inherent in both Wizards and Elves) are withdrawn from Middle Earth, those who remain are still challenged within their measure. The Music of Anwe goes on. The discordant notes of Morgoth are diminished, but still part of the Music.

Also, the War was not only in Gondor and Rohan, but nearly everywhere in Middle Earth. What happens in the Shire is a demonstration that everyone was threatened, not just the people that we see. Unlike the movie, Tolkein made certain that the reader understood that war was brewing everywhere. The Elves would not come, for there was war on the borders of Mirkwood and Lothlorien. The dwarves were beseiged in the Lonely Mountain. The entire world was affected.

The necessity of Scouring of the Shire was a small sacrifice to remove so large an evil as the One Ring, but no victory can come without sacrifice, and it was not Frodo's sacrifice alone. The Scouring showed how the characters had grown through their adventures. It also showed that they understood the lesson of the book: that even the small and weak can stand up to, and overcome, great evil.


RC

 

[KenM]

And that would be good why? If there's one way the movies improved on the books, it's the removal of the truly contrived and extraneous Scouring of the Shire.

The movie of Return of the King has its faults, but I think this is one thing they definitely got right.

I agree. I think that if they put it in, most moviegoers would have walked out in disgust, thinking "More fighting? We just had the big climax"
The point of the Scorging was to show how the four hobbits had changed, and Peter Jackson did that with the scene in the Green dragon at end of RotK.

 

[KenM]

i completely agree. THe movies Suck when compared to the books.

the books are 1000000000 bajillion times better.

I totally disagree. JRRT's writing style, for lack of a better word, sucks IMO. I can't get though fellowship, its so slow paced and he has the characters break out into song about something that has NOTHING to do with the plot. He goes on and on describing almost everything the characters see while traveling, but he does not describe major battles, plot points well. The main story is about a war, and IMO you need to describe the action as well as the setting equailly.
IMO Geroge RR Martin strikes the balance between plot, setting, character devolpment and action better.

 

[Filby]

The Miller's son, Ted Sandyman, is likely an agent of Saruman, and he has agents in the Shire who are sending him Longbottom Leaf.

Actually, Frodo's cousin, Lotho Sackville-Baggins, was one of Saruman's agents in the Shire -- he became Saruman's puppet "Boss" during the wizard's occupation of the Shire -- and it was Lotho who was buying up most of the Shire's pipeweed and selling it to Saruman (which contributed to the unbalancing of the Shire's economy). Ted Sandyman was just a spineless little creep who decided he'd rather throw his lot in with the winners than help his own people.

I agree with your points, though. I see the Scouring of the Shire as integral to the story for the reasons you've discussed.