GSL news.

[Mighty Veil]

* Adamant Entertainment
* EN Publishing
* Expeditious Retreat Press
* Fantasy Flight Games
* Goodman Games
* Green Ronin Publishing
* Mongoose Publishing
* Necromancer Games
* Paizo Publishing
* Paradigm Concepts
* Privateer Press

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FFG might get back into PNP games? That's neat. Interesting to see which D20 companies could still be around for 4e. Too bad AEG isn't interested. I read their stuff and I felt it was one of the better 3rd party groups. Very surprised to see a couple names on this list as their stuff was awful.

 

[Hussar]

At the end of the day, I guess it depends on whether or not you see the OGL as a success or not. I generally don't, to be completely honest. I don't think the OGL was as successful as some make it out to be.

 

[dm4hire]

The license is going in the direction I figured it would, but in the same regards I have to agree that WotC is being over reactive. Their stance puts them more in the role of a spoiled kid where everything has to be about them. If players decide they don't want to keep playing D&D then I would think that they would want them to continue playing something similar for the sole reason that the odds are more in their favor they will return later. Players who switch to completely different systems tend to not go back as they find the mechanics simplier or more fluent to their desires. Those who stick with d20 though can still buy WotC books, as mentioned, to assist them with their game and thus at least give some money back.

I just hope that the lawyers at WotC don't move to stifle it even more by placing a restriction that any individual who uses the license cannot work with the OGL. Which would put the partnering of companies in jeopardy, as writers then would not be able to work between companies. As it sits there is no reason why anyone who doesn't go with the GSL cannot do their thing and then partner with someone who did, thereby doing both. That is the only legal loop hole I am seeing so far without seeing the license. We may see a lot of partnering in the third party world soon.

 

[SSquirrel]

Excellent point. The GSL means that one of the two will happen:

1. The gaming community will lose True20 and Mutants & Masterminds; or
2. The gaming community will not have Green Ronin producing books for D&D 4e.

Ouch.

I think people are forgetting a 3rd option.

3. The gaming opportunity gets Mutants & Masterminds 4th Edition (crazy edition skipping!) under the new d20 GSL for non-fantasy games.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Here's something: how restrictive is the "one or the other" clause? I'm specifically thinking of Paizo. They're planning to work with Necro on 4E, but keep publishing their own 3E stuff. However, their main business is actually being a storefront for games and gaming accessories including their own. If they stick with 3E, will they be able to sell Necro's 4E stuff in their online store, or vice versa: if they move to 4E will they have to discontinue selling all the 3E stock they have sitting around...back issues, older books, etc.?

Some related questions: how distanced do Necro and Paizo have to be in order for one to sell 4E stuff and the other to sell 3E stuff? If most of the Paizo guys have writing credits on Necro books, does that violate the GSL? Will writers have to pick sides or else risk violating their publishers' contracts? If Paizo can keep publishing Pathfinder, but still work with Necro on 4E stuff, what's the difference between that and just starting up a 4E company, keeping it distanced from Paizo, but still selling its stuff in the Paizo store and getting the best of both worlds?

This sounds like a disaster to me. If not immediately, then a few months from now, when companies like Paizo and Green Ronin are going to have their backs to the wall: abandon support of your popular main lines, or force your fans to discard their existing books and buy all new books to achieve compliance with the new system.

This also looks to me like it could turn into a PR nightmare for WotC. I'm not a big GR fan, but I bet there are going to be a lot of people who are pretty pissed off that GR must choose between supporting True20 and supporting 4E. The fan base will split between the people who want GR to move to the new system and write supplements, and people who want True20 to keep getting support. That could endanger GR's existence, and the loss of a quality company like that can only hurt the hobby. Same goes for Paizo, although they'll probably have an easier time migrating Pathfinder since it's a world, not a system.

I strongly disapprove of this measure. I think that some amount of nudging to convert to 4E is probably okay, but not arm-twisting like this. It should be a carrot, not a stick. This "you're with us or you're against us" mentality has a precedent of blowing up in the face of the one making the ultimatum. As a consumer, I take offence at this deliberate hamstringing of companies that are beloved by the community.

 

[Dragonblade]

The license is going in the direction I figured it would, but in the same regards I have to agree that WotC is being over reactive. Their stance puts them more in the role of a spoiled kid where everything has to be about them.

Umm, no. More like they are the kid that brought a bunch of toys to the playground and offered to share only to see half the other kids snatch up their toys and walk away.

Then they brought some new toys and said, "Hey we'll share these toys with you too, but you have to play with us and return the ones you took last time."

The only "spoiled" kids are the ones who somehow feel they are entitled to have toys that don't belong to them.

 

[AllisterH]

The license is going in the direction I figured it would, but in the same regards I have to agree that WotC is being over reactive. Their stance puts them more in the role of a spoiled kid where everything has to be about them. If players decide they don't want to keep playing D&D then I would think that they would want them to continue playing something similar for the sole reason that the odds are more in their favor they will return later. Players who switch to completely different systems tend to not go back as they find the mechanics simplier or more fluent to their desires. Those who stick with d20 though can still buy WotC books, as mentioned, to assist them with their game and thus at least give some money back.

.

Except for one tiny little problem. It's their ball and more importantly, they're the ones that invited everyone to play their game. Calling the kid who not only supplied the ball but actually invited everyone over spoiled because he wants to play a new game seems well, weird.

That's the thing I find funny in this discussion. People seem willing to believe the worst of WOTC yet we wouldn't even be talking about this WITHOUT WOTC willing to play

 

[Lizard]

I've seen this, to use Lizard's phrase, meme bounced around a lot. I'm not sure if I really buy it. If someone leaves 3e for a d20 game, they've likely left because they don't like 3e for whatever reason. Why would they then later come back to 3e?

I love Chinese food. But if I have it every night for a month, I'm going to want Italian. This doesn't mean I've stopped liking Chinese, I just want a change.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Is no-one realizing that Mutants and Masterminds is as close to 3e as it is to 4e?
That True 20 made enough changes as to be incompatible except in vague "Resolution Mechanic" ways.

True 20 can crib all the game play improvements it wants. Rules are not subject to copyright. The OGL was just WotC giving a little bit of IP out in an open way and releasing their rules texts. I can make a 4e SRD that ignores the GSL and post it on line. I just have to be REALLY careful to not use their text. Luckily, I can just rename Tide of Iron to Shield Push and I'm pretty good.

(IANAL, and this is just based off my own lay interpretation of similar laws.)

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Umm, no. More like they are the kid that brought a bunch of toys to the playground and offered to share only to see half the other kids snatch up their toys and walk away.

Then they brought some new toys and said, "Hey we'll share these toys with you too, but you have to play with us and return the ones you took last time."

The only "spoiled" kids are the ones who somehow feel they are entitled to have toys that don't belong to them.

You're overlooking the only people in this situation who are entitled to act like spoiled kids: the consumers. If we want to play both 3E and 4E, and have those lines both supported by our favourite companies, we're SOL. But we're the ones who pay for this stuff, and we're getting screwed by this policy. The game publishers may not have a right to demand that WotC make life easy for them, but we paying customers have the ability to raise a stink about it.