GSL news.

[Dinkeldog]

Okay, crew, knock off the sniping.

That includes, but is not limited to:

Mentioning ignore lists
Pointed comments at other users
Allegations of ulterior motives

 

[Shadeydm]

I just wanted to weigh in with some of my thoughts about this...

I think this isn't a particularly "gamer friendly" move by WotC. My biggest beef with all this is that they are, through the GSL, purposefully destroying (if certain publishers choose to go this route) alot of creative work. Games such as True20, Mutants and Masterminds, Conan d20, Babylon5 d20, Midnight 2nd ed., etc. Must basically cease to exist if these companies want to go with 4e. These are games that were created before 4e was even known about and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that these creative works must disappear in order for these publishers to support D&D.

I honestly hate the stifling nature that this new GSL seems to be imposing. D&D rules as RAW may not support every fantasy setting and I have seen WotC's general lack at pushing the envelope when it comes to this...yet the 3rd party publishers did, and many benefited from being willing to take that risk. Now they are being told to either give up what they have created or be unable to support a game which, IMHO, was made richer by their contributions.

I honestly would have stopped playing D&D a while ago if it wasn't for Midnight and Iron Kingdoms giving me settings I really liked, the adventures by Paizo, True20 that kept me in d20 with it's adaptability and Mongoose who gave me the Lonewolf rpg which was a much simpler and easier to grasp version of a d20 game that I used to introduce new people to the basics with...I have less of a problem with WotC saying from the point you accept the new GSL you must only publish 4th ed products(though I still find this heavy handed since the game could still have less than stellar reception from gamers)...but it just seems a disservice to the hobby to try and take away the range of choice that the OGL has offered gamers.

I saw a lot of prople get offended when White Wolf offered a copy of Exalted for the PHB and it was made known the book would be destroyed, yet in my mind this is worse on a much larger scale. YMMV of course but just a few of my thoughts about this announcement.

I find myself agreeing with much of your thoughts. Midnight is also one of my favorite settings I would be sad to see it die.

 

[Umbran]

Anyway, back onto the the ignore list for you.

Saishu_Heiki, perhaps you have forgotten that we expect a higher than average level of civility around here. Allow me to remind you, and everyone else...

The license and policy changes may frustrate some folks around here. However, we still expect you to be civil and polite. There is no excuse for taking frustration out on the people here. If you descend into this kind of childish rudeness, you will not be happy with the consequences, I assure you.

So, folks, be aware - we'll be watching these GSL threads as closely as our time permits. Don't expect a lot of leeway on the civility rules from this point forwards. If you choose to post, we expect to see your best behavior. Feel free to disagree, but don't be a jerk.

 

[Wolfspider]

It looks like WotC has found a pretty effective way to put the OGL genie back in the bottle....

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It looks like WotC has found a pretty effective way to put the OGL genie back in the bottle....

Well, he's not exactly back in the bottle, but he may be standing around all alone yelling, "Doesn't anybody love me anymore?"

Poor genie.

 

[Hussar]

I just wanted to weigh in with some of my thoughts about this...

I think this isn't a particularly "gamer friendly" move by WotC. My biggest beef with all this is that they are, through the GSL, purposefully destroying (if certain publishers choose to go this route) alot of creative work. Games such as True20, Mutants and Masterminds, Conan d20, Babylon5 d20, Midnight 2nd ed., etc. Must basically cease to exist if these companies want to go with 4e. These are games that were created before 4e was even known about and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that these creative works must disappear in order for these publishers to support D&D.

I honestly hate the stifling nature that this new GSL seems to be imposing. D&D rules as RAW may not support every fantasy setting and I have seen WotC's general lack at pushing the envelope when it comes to this...yet the 3rd party publishers did, and many benefited from being willing to take that risk. Now they are being told to either give up what they have created or be unable to support a game which, IMHO, was made richer by their contributions.

I honestly would have stopped playing D&D a while ago if it wasn't for Midnight and Iron Kingdoms giving me settings I really liked, the adventures by Paizo, True20 that kept me in d20 with it's adaptability and Mongoose who gave me the Lonewolf rpg which was a much simpler and easier to grasp version of a d20 game that I used to introduce new people to the basics with...I have less of a problem with WotC saying from the point you accept the new GSL you must only publish 4th ed products(though I still find this heavy handed since the game could still have less than stellar reception from gamers)...but it just seems a disservice to the hobby to try and take away the range of choice that the OGL has offered gamers.

I saw a lot of prople get offended when White Wolf offered a copy of Exalted for the PHB and it was made known the book would be destroyed, yet in my mind this is worse on a much larger scale. YMMV of course but just a few of my thoughts about this announcement.

Sort of. What they're saying is that the 3PP can't have their cake and eat it too. If they want to stay with those products, like True 20 etc, they can certainly do so. They just cannot, at the same time, take advantage of what WOTC is offering. It does make a fair bit of sense. You can stay with the game that you are doing, or you can dance to WOTC's tune.

Why would WOTC allow companies to compete with them using their own IP? The only reason games like Conan etc. exist is because those companies took the 3e OGL and created new games. Not supplements for D&D, but entirely new games that actually serve to draw away gamers from WOTC products.

Imaro, you're actually, in your own words the poster child for this. You state, "I honestly would have stopped playing D&D a while ago if it wasn't for Midnight and Iron Kingdoms giving me settings I really liked, the adventures by Paizo, True20 that kept me in d20 with it's adaptability and Mongoose who gave me the Lonewolf rpg". In other words, you already weren't buying WOTC material. From their point of view, it doesn't matter if you were still playing d20, because they're not getting anything out of that. You may as well be playing White Wolf or Paladium as far as they are concerned.

I think it's a case of realizing that the original OGL didn't do what they wanted it to do which was get companies to support D&D and sell PHB's, but rather created their own competition.

 

[Zil]

It looks like WotC has found a pretty effective way to put the OGL genie back in the bottle....

There is a small risk for them of a backlash if some gamers are put off by this and simply refuse to move to the new system. But the risk is likely quite small because I suspect that most D&D gamers aren't fully aware of the OGL, the new GSL, and the implications of the restrictions in the new GSL (or they simply don't care).

Is this more likely to make me not move to 4E? Sure, but I was already on the fence and looking to stick with 3.x (or Pathfinder) anyway. This announcement makes we want to support the "little" guys who choose to stay with 3.x even more.

 

[Lizard]

Well, he's not exactly back in the bottle, but he may be standing around all alone yelling, "Doesn't anybody love me anymore?"

Poor genie.

D20
Traveller
Runequest
SOTC
Action!
FUDGE

That is not a lonely genie.

And all material for all of those games is equally open and can be mixed and matched. The OGL does not recognize game systems, just Open Game Content. Convert the MM to SOTC! Use Traveller system generation rules and FUDGE characters! Take the insanely large library of open D20 content and convert it to Runequest!

If you ask me, the GSL is the lonely one.

 

[BryonD]

Why would WOTC allow companies to compete with them using their own IP?

They certainly shouldn't do that. But their selection in solution makes attacking the Open Gaming movement (and by extension, gamers as a whole) part of the issue.
I believe an attitude that saw what is best for gamers and what is best for WotC as being more of a synergy would have been much better.

The idea that Green Ronin must choose between True20 and 4E support is a no-win situation for gamers. I consider it bad that WotC has thoughtfully put their fans in that situation.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

If you ask me, the GSL is the lonely one.

With all due respect to you and the games/companies you mentioned, you're dreaming.

Don't get me wrong-- it's a nice dream; I don't particularly want to wake up myself.