GSL questions for Scott Rouse and Mike Lescault

[Jack99]

The allowed products will look a lot like those allowed under the d20 STL.

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

And still more questions for Scott, to be answered after a good night's sleep :

Will the GSL permit Character Generator Software?

If so, can this Software legally include data (e.g. powers) from the actual books?

Yea, I know, I sound like a spoiled child, who wants, wants, WANTS more, more and MORE!!! So let's make one thing clear: I'm very happy about this openness and want to thank you and your department very much for making this happen!

---
Huldvoll


Jan van Leyden

 

[Knight Otu]

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

IANAL. But from my reading, under the d20STL, the following products were not allowed:

• Miniatures (except paper miniatures)
• Interactive Games (pretty much everything where a die roll would be involved)
• Games that change a few Defined Game Terms (such as Fortitude save or saving throw - you couldn't use the 4E definition of a saving throw in a d20STL book for instance.)
• Games that include character creation or advancement rules (such as Arcana Evolved or Mutants and Masterminds), not extending to the creation of new races or classes
• Books using Core Book in any fashion
• Books that fail certain decency standards (containing sexual content, excessive gore, prejudice, and the like)

Books released under the d20STL also required a minimum of Open Content, a few sentences to note that the book required a WotC product (PHB, d20 Modern, ...) to use properly.

 

[Lizard]

The allowed products will look a lot like those allowed under the d20 STL.

IIRC, Spycraft 1.0 was published under the STL...

My most important question remaining is, I think, is it viral? Is there a concept of 'open content' which is shared among third party publishers?

 

[Voadam]

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

From the d20 license

2. License to use
You are hereby granted the non-transferable, non-exclusive, non-sublicensable, royalty-free license to use the d20 System trademark logos, the d20 System trademark, and certain other trademarks and copyrights owned by Wizards of the Coast (the "Licensed Articles") in accordance with the conditions specified in the current version of this License and the d20 System Guide.

. . .

4. Quality Standards
The nature of all material You use or distribute that incorporates the Licensed Articles must comply with all applicable laws and regulations, as well as community standards of decency, as further described in the d20 System Guide. You must use Your best efforts to preserve the high standard and goodwill of the Licensed Trademarks. In order to assure the foregoing standard and quality requirements, Wizards of the Coast shall have the right, upon notice to You, to review and inspect all material released by You that uses the Licensed Articles. You shall fully cooperate with Wizards of the Coast to facilitate such review and inspection, including timely provision of copies of all such materials to Wizards of the Coast. Wizards of the Coast may terminate this License immediately upon attempted notice to you if it deems, in its sole discretion, that your use of the Licensed Articles does not meet the above standards.

From the d20 license guide v. 5.0
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/d20Guidev5.rtf

Quality Standards

In determining whether a product complies with community standards of decency, Wizards of the Coast uses, but is not limited to the following. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Wizards of the Coast reserves the right to determine, in its sole discretion, whether a product complies with community standards of decency.

Violence and Gore – Descriptions of combat are acceptable in a Covered Product. However art or text depicting excessively graphic violence or gore is not acceptable.

Sexual Themes - Sexual situations—including abuse and pornography—may not appear graphically in art or text. When depicting the human form—or creatures possessing humaniform features—gratuitous nudity, the depiction of genitalia, bare female nipples, and sexual or bathroom activity is not acceptable. While sensuality and sexuality may appear in a Covered Product, it must not be the focus nor can it be salacious in nature.

Prejudice - Covered Products can not depict existing real-world minorities, nationalities, social castes, religious groups, genders, lifestyle preferences, or people with disabilities as a group inferior to any other group. Current, real-world religions and religious groups and/or practices will not be portrayed in any way that promotes disrespect for these religions or their participants. A Covered Product can not endorse or promote any specific religion or religious practice.

Mandatory Restrictions:

No Covered Product may contain rules or instructions of any kind that:

• Describe a process for Creating a Character
• Describe a process for Applying the Effects of Experience to a Character

No Covered Product may change or extend the definition of any Defined Game Term as enumerated in this Guide.

No Covered Product may include “Miniatures.”

No Covered Product may use the term “Core Book” on its cover, title, advertising, or self-reference.

No Covered Product may be an "Interactive Game" as defined in this Guide.

Mandatory Requirements:

All Covered Products must comply with Quality Standards as described above and in the d20 System License.

A minimum of 5% of the text (word count or letter count) of a Covered Product must be Open Game Content and must comply with the terms of the Open Game License version 1.0a.

All Covered Products must display the d20 System Logo, or in the specific case of an ASCII text file, include the words “A d20 System Licensed Product.”

All Covered Products must include the following text block:

'd20 System' and the 'd20 System' logo are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and are used according to the terms of the d20 System License version 6.0. A copy of this License can be found at www.wizards.com/d20.

Permission is granted to translate this text into a non-English language, provided that the English text is also included, and that the translated text is identified as non-official.

and

• "Interactive Game": means a piece of software that is designed to accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve the success or failure of those inputs, and return some indication of the results of those inputs to the users. Success and failure includes any determination wherein one outcome is preferable to another. This includes the random determination of hit points, ability scores, and the like.

• “Miniature”: Means a three-dimensional sculpture of a figure or creature, composed of plastic, metal, resin, stone, rubber, or fiberglass or similar material. Paper representations of figures or creatures are not considered “miniatures” under this definition.

 

[Flynn]

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

Think of it in these generalized terms:

The OGL (Open Gaming License) governs the declaration of game mechanics that are designated as open content. Using the OGL alone, you cannot label your products as being D20 System-compliant with the D20 System logo. This is the license that covers content.

The D20 STL (System Trademark License) is simply a way to allow people to use the official approved D20 System logo and build up brand recognition. In order to avoid stepping on WOTC's toes, they require you to avoid using certain terms or rules, but you get to use the D20 System logo and in theory cash in on brand recognition. This is the license that governs logos used for marketing purposes.

That's it as I understand it, in a rough nutshell. Bear in mind that I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. There's more to it than the above, but for general understanding purposes, the above should cover your bases.

Hope This Helps,
Flynn

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Many of these questions could be answered easily enough by releasing the GSL (Not the SRD) publicly when the publishers get it and not have it be NDAed. Its not like this wont be public in a month and a half anyway.

 

[Voadam]

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

The OGL licenses use and reuse of d20 game rules and has no content restrictions except for prohibiting use of declared product identity from other OGL products, prohibiting use of trademarked stuff absent separate licenses, and some compatibility statements.

The d20 STL allows use of the trademarked d20 logo and some compatibility language but is restricted to products that do not violate WotC's community standards, are not physical miniatures, character generators, do not describe character creation or how to apply experience to advancement.

A book about salacious sex or promoting or disparaging a real world religion or minority is OK under the OGL but not the d20 STL. As are complete games in themselves, games that modify core d20 mechanics like saves, etc.

 

[Orcus]

Could anyone explain what this means more concretely to me, since I don't get (or rather know) the difference between OGL and the d20 STL.

As others have said, it is very likely that the same restrictions (all noted above) from the STL and Guide will apply to the GSL (and perhaps more).

That means:

No miniatures
No interactive games
No applying effects of XP
No character creation
No violation of certain standards
Etc.

It also appears that the GSL will have a provision that if you use the GSL you may not use the OGL ever again and if you do you lose the right to use the GSL.

 

[Pramas]

It also appears that the GSL will have a provision that if you use the GSL you may not use the OGL ever again and if you do you lose the right to use the GSL.

That would be...interesting.

 

[Nellisir]

It also appears that the GSL will have a provision that if you use the GSL you may not use the OGL ever again and if you do you lose the right to use the GSL.

That would be...interesting.

No kidding. That'd be...I dunno. Words fail me. I'm sure someone else will say something in a few minutes or so, though.

 

[catsclaw227]

No miniatures
No interactive games
No applying effects of XP
No character creation
No violation of certain standards
Etc.

Does this mean that online and software tools like DMGenie, RPGExplorer, or NPCDesigner are not possible with the GSL? I'd love to be able to make an online DM Aid like DM Genie for 4th edition.

 

[Alzrius]

Does this mean that online and software tools like DMGenie, RPGExplorer, or NPCDesigner are not possible with the GSL? I'd love to be able to make an online DM Aid like DM Genie for 4th edition.

So far as we're aware of, that's the case - you can't legally make (and sell) a program that has any aspects of creating a character. That makes sense, since WotC wants people to turn to the D&DI for that.

Bear in mind, that's just my understanding based on what's been said so far. I could be completely wrong when all's said and done.

 

[HyrumOWC]

It also appears that the GSL will have a provision that if you use the GSL you may not use the OGL ever again and if you do you lose the right to use the GSL.

Wow.

If that's true, that might be the nail in the coffin for me and 4e. I like some of what I've seen, and I don't like a lot of it, but with the announcement yesterday I've started brainstorming ideas but if the above ends up being true I'll have to rethink those ideas.

Hyrum.

 

[BryonD]

Ok, Im thoroughly confused.

So, are all the existing RPGObjects titles going away?

 

[Orcus]

Does this mean that online and software tools like DMGenie, RPGExplorer, or NPCDesigner are not possible with the GSL? I'd love to be able to make an online DM Aid like DM Genie for 4th edition.

We dont know yet. But based on Scott's comment that [paraphrasing] the same kinds of products could be made as were possible under the STL, I am guessing that means that if those things didnt work with a d20 logo, they wont work with the GSL.

 

[AZRogue]

No kidding. That'd be...I dunno. Words fail me. I'm sure someone else will say something in a few minutes or so, though.

I'm not a 3rd party publisher and I don't play 3.5 anymore, so this doesn't effect me that much, but I will say that, if true, it would be kind of sad.

Still, I can understand the restriction, if it does in fact exist. I see it as a move to push forward and to limit the remnants of the old system still taking up "shelf" space. I can't say I like it, but I understand it and it isn't a deal breaker for me in any way.

Still, I sympathize for those publishers for whom this could end up being a deal breaker. It makes an easy decision into a much more difficult one. Some companies, I'm sure, will decide to delay any transition (once again, if this turns out to be true) until they see how successful 4E is and how the 3E market is impacted. Understandable, but it would have been nice to see the floodgates opened and the products all lined up for me that much sooner.

But I will wait and see what happens. My faith-meter has been pegging at 9000 rpms since the announcement so this isn't slowing me down. I have faith in the people who pulled this off and am more curious than really concerned.

 

[Vigilance]

So, are all the existing RPGObjects titles going away?

Not for the life of my mother. Even if I knew who she was. /Ladyhawke

 

[BryonD]

Not for the life of my mother. Even if I knew who she was. /Ladyhawke

I'm glad to hear that. (about the games, not about your mom )

 

[Vigilance]

I'm glad to hear that. (about the games, not about your mom )

Actually, backstock will pretty much decide the issue.

If it's a question of discontinuing all OGL backstock, then the decision is easy.

If it's a question of choosing between supporting the OGL or 4e going forward, that would be heartbreaking.