D&D 5E [GUIDE] Arrive on Time - A General Guide to Wizardry

[TheBigHouse]

I was assuming dual wielder taken as the human feat. Trying to maximize melee damage. TWF with the Int buff to damage and Haste is a very potent combination. To follow up on my last reply, we're building different characters for different roles again

Lol true. I guess that's why we like this game so much

 

[NADRIGOL]

Lol true. I guess that's why we like this game so much

I'm tempted to make that my signature!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Great discussion... just going to jump in on one point. Song of defense applies to any type of damage. So if you're in a situation you know shield isn't going to be enough (crits or really high stat attackers), looking at a damage type outside the five absorb elements protects against (say poison or psychic), Song of Defense can be your savior. As far as burning spell slots for it, I think Song of Defense comes into it's own at high level, for life saving moments, when mid level spell slots aren't as critical.

Overall, I think you're making good points. Bladesinger isn't necessarily the default best option for frontliner/tank. But I think Bladesinger is capable of a higher DPR than many of these multiclassing options. I appreciate it for it's striker potential... taking some of the utility focus off my wizard, and allowing me to shift into a half utility / half damage role. This is very party dependent... In my party we have a Bard who takes over some of the utility/support role during combat.

This is all true.

On a slightly different note, however, I will argue that HP attrition including almost everything relating to Song of Defense is best dealt with by keeping everybody topped up at all times at full HP from a dedicated healer + temp HP from Inspired Leader. When 5E first came out I would have argued the opposite--that having a healer was largely redundant because of Hit Die healing on short rests--but that was before discovering the synergies between Extended Spell (Metamagic), Aura of Vitality, and Disciple of Life (1st level Life Cleric feature) that give you 240 HP of healing per 3rd level spell slot (plus a sorcery point) as well as allowing essentially free pop-up healing during combat.

Anyway, when your 10th level party healer can heal 240 HP with a 3rd level slot, the ability to spend a 5th level slot to avoid 25 HP of damage looks a lot less impressive as a 10th level ability. So there's a bit of a question here whether we're evaluating abilities in a vacuum or in the context of a likely party.

BTW, just in case it is relevant to evaluating the likelihood that you'll actually have such a partymate:

The superhealer build (Sorc 3/Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 6, possibly followed by Warlock 5 for 2/short rest Aura of Vitality) may look counterintuitive but it's surprisingly viable as an actual character. You'll take Mobile to allow you to wear plate without penalty, which synergizes well with the Booming Blade you get from Sorcerer to make you surprisingly gishy; your other metamagic goes not to Quicken per usual (you don't have enough sorcery points to exploit Quicken effectively) but to Careful so you can cast Careful Webs that don't affect the party but hinder monsters, without anyone having to blow a bunch of spell points on Free Movement for everybody. During combat you can blast away with Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast (potentially knocking enemies off cliffs or into your Webs) and/or hand out Inspiration or support the party Sharpshooter with Bless. It winds up being a surprisingly gishy character and almost entirely SAD as well--entirely in keeping with the best traditions of clerics.

Apologies for the tangent, but I feel that it is relevant to evaluating Song of Defense.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Does that make sense?

How should we present this subtle difference? Should we add a note to enchanter that says "check out the neat stuff you can do with a melee enchanter" and then put a section in multiclassing? Should we make Enchanter sky blue to reflect how good that build is, or should we leave it dark blue for the traditional role, and then make the multiclassing build sky blue?

I think it's fine to leave your guide as-is. Anyone who's interested will be able to read the whole thread including our recent discussion here. Besides, melee wizard tanks are a specific enough thing that they're almost their own thing, not something that can fit in a footnote about a specific wizard specialty.

 

[mellored]

IMO each feature should be rated by itself. You can mention combo's, but you shouldn't rate the base feature on it.

 

[NADRIGOL]

The superhealer build

My counterpoints are
1) None of the players in my party would want to play such a character... By no means a representative sample, but still...
2) This is healing over time. That character can't save my relatively frail wizard from a sudden blast of damage. I would by all means expect RA based damage reduction to cover a much smaller number of hit points than out of combat heals from a dedicated healer. But as long as my bladesinger can stay alive, he is doing all the damage he needs to, and the lack of a dedicated healer in my party means higher damage output, and shorter combat. Perfect for getting back to healing during rests quicker.

Two different play styles, but I guess I'm still a believer that the game mechanics favor preventing damage over healing damage. I am still a Wizard. If both dragons are able to attack me at once, there are high level battlefield control spells being misused.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

My counterpoints are
1) None of the players in my party would want to play such a character... By no means a representative sample, but still...
2) This is healing over time. That character can't save my relatively frail wizard from a sudden blast of damage. I would by all means expect RA based damage reduction to cover a much smaller number of hit points than out of combat heals from a dedicated healer. But as long as my bladesinger can stay alive, he is doing all the damage he needs to, and the lack of a dedicated healer in my party means higher damage output, and shorter combat. Perfect for getting back to healing during rests quicker.

Two different play styles, but I guess I'm still a believer that the game mechanics favor preventing damage over healing damage. I am still a Wizard. If both dragons are able to attack me at once, there are high level battlefield control spells being misused.

I have to admit, I also favor damage prevention in practice, but for an entirely different reason: my PCs don't like getting stabbed/roasted/eaten because it hurts. The fact that you could theoretically survive ten times as many stabbings by healing the damage after the fact is not a convincing reason to let this guy stab me right now.

Therefore, I tend to overuse active defenses like Shield, even when the theoretically optimal decision is to just soak the damage and heal it afterward.

But, I don't like active defenses enough to prioritize Song of Defense over things like Malleable Illusion, Portent, and Undead Thralls. I'll let me biases and irrational preferences influence my short-term decisions, but not my long-term decisions.

Anyway, good discussion, all. I really enjoy this thread.

 

[Ovarwa]

The thing about BS vs Abjurer is that every single Abjurer feature is useful, either providing defenses or making him better at (aspects of) a wizard's traditional role. A BS designed to hang back and cast spells doesn't use half of his features..... An Abjurer who dips a level (probably at start) into cleric or fighter again does not waste features. Dipping even further into a martial class makes things even worse. Archer Ranger or Fighter 11/Wizard(X) 9? Maybe X == Abjurer rather than BS. In your face great weapon wielder? That's a STR build, of which quite a few are interesting for wizards.... Nothing wrong with BS! Wizardly defenses are good. BS adds solid defense, and does allow for a fragile, wizardly gish-in-a-box, 1-20. But Abjurer temp hp 'field' is a unique feature that is easily replenished and that helps against bad concentration saves; this is the wizard I'd rather have at my back for the big showdown with the evil spellcaster, a likely encounter type!

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

As a sorcerer player, I found this guide a very interesting read, and I enjoyed the damage graphs toward the end. I have three comments, which I will order from complainingest to questioningest.

1) I think you do a disservice to cone of cold to call it mid-sized. Its volume is more than twice that of fireball, and its being a cone makes it easier to target than the larger spheres, especially indoors.

2) It's not clear if the damage averages of those spells which require an attack roll factor in the chance to crit. I think that that is an important consideration, effectively making their chance to hit 5% higher by default and more if the caster can get advantage from darkness/paralyze/hold/invisibility.

3) So, empowered evocation got nerfed to only apply to the first damage roll, but has there been any clarification of overchannel? In the case of a spell which deals damage on more than one turn, such as storm sphere, does overchannel apply turn after turn? Or has there been no erratum on it?

Thanks for the great guide.

 

[Pinwheel]

I kind of wanted to touch base about Hypnotic Pattern -- It gets rave reviews as an excellent CC option, and it is a good one, but it seems very swingy to me. If everyone in the encounter fails it's ridiculously strong, and you can basically just pick your targets and strike like mad. If one or more foes passes, however, the enemies will just use their actions to shake their allies awake. A 3rd level spell slot for one turn of CC seems kind of rough to me.

Just was wondering if I was missing anything or if you guys have any advice!