D&D 5E [GUIDE] Dealing Death: Handbook of the True Assassin

MooreVol

Explorer
So how dependent is this build upon your DM? I mean, seems like if the DM doesn't put you in a lot of situations where you're able to surprise the enemy then you could lose that surprise round crit damage.... how effective will this character be in combat with the nova damage?

I think you'll still get advantage the first round as long as you roll well on initiative (and there are enemies who didn't roll as well... but not the automatic crits...

I can easily imagine my DM cutting down/out opportunities for ambushing enemies (i.e. surprise rounds) just like he would if our party kept using any other tactic so effectively.

Along the same lines, how much would your party composition matter? I'm a relatively inexperienced player, but seems like if one's party had maybe a paladin or other PC that wasn't much for sneaking that might do the same. I picture this assassin as often being a scout and out in front of the party, but then is he attacking alone during the surprise round? I guess that's still all bonus though....

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are....
 

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Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
So how dependent is this build upon your DM?
Were I DM'ing for a player with one of these builds, I would sit down with him away-from-table to let him know that as his group gains fame / notoriety, the long-term villains in the campaign will come to learn of his favorite tactic, and instruct his henchmen to take appropriate precautions. Outlanders, visitors, foe-du-jour types may or may not know what to expect, so he could 'get the drop' on them.
This means he can get to do his shtick from time to time (I won't make it 'vanishingly rare') but he cannot expect just EVERY FIGHT to turn into "Ambush Alley". He will get a better chance to shine when they go on the offensive against BBEG / a lieutenant than if the group always waits for trouble to come to them.

I also would tell him that I'm going to watch all the James Bond films, to come up with ideas to bring into the game. Fair Warning and all that.
 

nickabbey1979

First Post
I'm using this guide as a start point for building a rogue assassin dex based twf with fighter dip for superiority dice and extra attacks. I'm very interested in building a true assassin, but there are a couple of design decisions I don't comprehend. I'm going for a stealthy scout that can be effective in the first round vs surprised opponents while still functioning primarily as a rogue in terms of spotting and disabling traps. If I don't get spread too thin in terms of MAD, I will also go for the ability to investigate traps. I want to be able to approach a group of enemies, spot, investigate and disarm their traps (or repurpose them to be used in my favor) and then get the drop on them for the first round to eliminate as many as possible while being able to hold my own in remaining rounds.

Some of the design choices from this guide seem to be a bit at odds with my character concept, and I want to understand them better before dismissing them out of hand. I apologize if these seem like silly questions, but I'm wondering if perhaps I've missed some reasoning behind key choices for this build. Perhaps this is because I still see the role of the character I'm looking to build as a stealth based scout for spotting and disabling traps.

1) Why take fighter at first level? The rationale explained in the OP doesn't seem to hold water for me.
Con saves are great, but a proficiency in strength saves is completely useless for almost every version of this build except the fighter/rogue/pally version. Additionally, strength based saves aren't super important or common in most situations. Going with rogue to level 3 for archetype selection as early as possible seems to make more sense as it gets you the ability to autocrit unaware enemies for surprise round nova at level 3. Going rogue to level 4 before dipping fighter would let you choose a feat. Alert will make your surprise round more productive by ensuring you go first, but you could also take the resilient feat and to get a +1 in con and proficiency on con saves. For the build I'm trying to create, dex saves are going to be more frequent and important than con saves for levels 4-6. At either level 4 or 8, the resilient (con) feat will get you the con save proficiency at a point where it starts to matter more during gameplay. The whole point here is that I want to understand if fighter really is the best option at level one for my build concept. Even though I'd need to take a feat to get it, by level 8 I will have proficiency in all of the saves that are most relevant to the build (except wisdom).

2) Why all the love for charisma and deception?
Is there some game mechanic that I am missing which provides a good reason for this? Deception in combat isn't addressed in the PHB, so it's not like you can feint in battle to get advantage by RAW that I know of. By RAW, the feint combat maneuver of a battle master is keyed off of dex (or str, but that wouldn't make sense in this build) so cha is no real benefit there. Perhaps the DMG or other sources mention something I'm not aware of? Outside of combat, I could see how it could lead to catching more opponents unaware during the first round of combat by approaching as if you were going to parley and then just attacking. However, initiating combat from stealth nets the same effect without the need for pumping charisma or the chance that intelligent foes who have heard of your deceptive tactics will get advantage to oppose your deception rolls because you have become notorious for this behavior. For the build I'm after, it seems like I could either dump cha to 8, or leave it at 10 and put the other points in to wis and int. This would get me better passive and active perception, insight and investigation.
 
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Gavin O.

First Post
Another option you could run is something like Rogue(3)/Fighter(2)/Warlock(2)/Sorcerer(X) and use Empowered Eldritch blast.

Once you hit level 17, Eldritch blast attacks 4 times, with action surge and quicken spell you can cast it 3 times in one round, dealing 24d10+60 damage, not counting the 15 dice you can reroll with Empowered Spell

The earliest you could get this version working is level 11 for Rogue(3)/Fighter(2)/Warlock(2)/Sorcerer(4), when you get your third attack with Eldritch Blast.
 
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Rub

First Post
While I haven't done the math (if someone would like to do it for me, it would be much appreciated!), I would think Fighter 2, Rogue 3 (Assassin), Hexblade Warlock 15 would be a pretty good build. It may not do the maximum nova surprise round damage compared others mentioned (though should still do plenty) but would have the added benefit of more spellcasting ability than other builds mentioned.
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
1) Why take fighter at first level? The rationale explained in the OP doesn't seem to hold water for me.
Con saves are great, but a proficiency in strength saves is completely useless for almost every version of this build except the fighter/rogue/pally version. Additionally, strength based saves aren't super important or common in most situations. Going with rogue to level 3 for archetype selection as early as possible seems to make more sense as it gets you the ability to autocrit unaware enemies for surprise round nova at level 3. Going rogue to level 4 before dipping fighter would let you choose a feat. Alert will make your surprise round more productive by ensuring you go first, but you could also take the resilient feat and to get a +1 in con and proficiency on con saves. For the build I'm trying to create, dex saves are going to be more frequent and important than con saves for levels 4-6. At either level 4 or 8, the resilient (con) feat will get you the con save proficiency at a point where it starts to matter more during gameplay. The whole point here is that I want to understand if fighter really is the best option at level one for my build concept. Even though I'd need to take a feat to get it, by level 8 I will have proficiency in all of the saves that are most relevant to the build (except wisdom).

2) Why all the love for charisma and deception?
Is there some game mechanic that I am missing which provides a good reason for this? Deception in combat isn't addressed in the PHB, so it's not like you can feint in battle to get advantage by RAW that I know of. By RAW, the feint combat maneuver of a battle master is keyed off of dex (or str, but that wouldn't make sense in this build) so cha is no real benefit there. Perhaps the DMG or other sources mention something I'm not aware of? Outside of combat, I could see how it could lead to catching more opponents unaware during the first round of combat by approaching as if you were going to parley and then just attacking. However, initiating combat from stealth nets the same effect without the need for pumping charisma or the chance that intelligent foes who have heard of your deceptive tactics will get advantage to oppose your deception rolls because you have become notorious for this behavior. For the build I'm after, it seems like I could either dump cha to 8, or leave it at 10 and put the other points in to wis and int. This would get me better passive and active perception, insight and investigation.


1. Bare in mind this is just a guide to help others get their feet under them, and not necessarily the end-all be-all of Rogue Assassin builds. I think it is great that you have a specific build and feel in mind for yours, and even greater that you feel it should differ in some aspects from the presented build.

This guide is set up to present Assassin's with the highest survivability and maximum Assassinate nova.
I believe as well, reading through the guide, the premise is to set up the higher HP and sought after Con proficiency first. Get the Assassin sub-class of the build's namesake, and then finish off towards that extra attack. As the build states, that is around lvl 8 if the guide is followed.

The strength based saves are not a highly sought object in the build. It assumes that you are building Dex, to still have an okay save, while ensuring the Con save, which generally guards against nasty effects, instead of pure damage is built up as well. (The higher HD and assumed high dex score is meant to mitigate the typical damage centric Dex checks)

The build specifically points out Alert as a choice feat. Which is something that one can pick up if using feats and the variant Human racials also suggested in the guide.

Your final question in this segment is really up to you. Do YOU think that going fighter is the best option for your concept. This is what the OP's opinion is from according to his/her stated objectives. Only you can answer whether it works for you or not.

2. The mechanic in question isn't so much a matter of crunch but role play and being able to walk up to an intended assassination target and surprise them. Deceptions and disguise is how that is accomplished. Typically. Perhaps your table does things differently. The thought is that not all assassinations occur from an ambush on a forested road or isolated room. They can be equally in well guarded areas or crowded city plazas. This is more where being able to get close to your target undetected where purely being unseen is not possible. What's more, they can be useful stills for information gathering on the target so that you can learn when she likes to use the out of the way privy or where he enjoys long horse rides, with a minimal contingent of guards.

Otherwise... just being an in-combat assassin feels... less. Not making judgement on those that prefer that play style. I just understand and appreciate the ability of a good assassin to be able to smile and chat with their target and then the next day stab them in the gut at their weakest.

If you feel your build isn't served in this manner, forget it, and reallocate your ability scores accordingly. That is a matter of vision and play style, not the right or wrong way to build an assassin.
 

djtigon1

First Post
Apologies for thread necro, but looking for sime advice

#RAW #SageAdvice - Tabaxi Shadow Monk Assassin

Sorry in advance for how this is laid out/formatted, wasnt sure how to organize this

Here are the conditions that need to be met for table rulings or thematic purposes (Non-negotiable).

Shadow Ninja Assassin Cat the goal being max potential 1st round, single target melee damage (though I understand it is possible to get Assassinate to proc on more than one creature in the first round provided conditions are met) but not being essentially useless after that first round.

• Must be #RAW / #SageAdvice compliant. No UA content.
• Race must be Tabaxi (character/thematic reasons)
• Highest Initiative possible, to proc Assassinate
• Minimum 3 levels of Rogue/Assassin for Assassinate
• Minimum 6 levels of Way of the Shadow Monk for Shadow Step
• Retain/build on the core stealthy/shadowy thematic mechanics
• Expertise in Stealth and Acrobatics (cause of my thematic style of combat)
• In regards to damage calculation use median weapon damage of 1d6 (dagger = d4, shortsword=d6, rapier=d8. Median=d6)
• Assume every attack hits as we are looking for max damage POTENTIAL
• No Magical Items that are not Common may be considered in terms of damage (though feel free to suggest things i should be on the look out for. Unknown if DM will allow them to be found)

I'm currently leaning towards:

11 Way of the Shadow Monk
Flurry of blows
Unarmored Defense
Martial Arts: 1d8 ki-empowered unarmed strikes
Unarmored Movement
Deflect Missles
Slow Fall
Extra Attack
Stunning Strike
Evasion
Stillness of Mind
Unarmored Movement Improvement (along walls/over water)
Purity of Body (immune to poison/disease)
Shadow Arts: Darkness, Pass without Trace, Silence, Minor Illusion
Shadow Step
Cloak of Shadows

Assassin 3
2d6 Sneak Attack
Cunning Action
Poisoner's Kit
Assassinate (if target = surprised & lower initiative, Adv + auto crit)

Gloomstalker Ranger 3
Hunters Mark (+1d6 per hit)
Dread Ambusher: Wisdom mod added to initative bonus, move speed, Additional Attack for 1 round + 1d8 damage
Umbral Sight: Increased Darkvision, when in darkness: invisibilty to creatures relying on darkvision

Alert feat for that ever imporant iniative (but im not sure which level to take this at)

This gets me to level 17

Im currently considering either:

3 levels of Fighter/Battle Master for Action Surge, Second Wind and d8 Battle Master maneuvers to enhance damage

OR

3 of Warlock for 4d10 Eldritch Blast (since Cantrips scale based on character level and not class level,) Devils Sight (see in my Shadow Monk's magical darkness) but I'm not sure what the 2nd Invocation should be (likely a Eldritch Blast buff), nor which Patron or Pact this should be though Chain is tempting with an invisible imp (though that doesnt help the nova damage). I understand Warlock is likely less 1st round single target damage, but would give me a reliable 4d10 damage to rely on from hidden range during subsequent rounds of combat.

I may also be convinced to take less levels in shadow monk if someone can make a convincing argument to give up Cloak of Shadows, Purity of Body, and the ability to run across water and along walls, but going below 8 levels in this class is rough as its the only place im able to get ASIs/Feats, and this build (currently) only gets 2.

Open to feat suggestions as well.
 
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SubDude

Explorer
Apologies for thread necro, but looking for sime advice

#RAW #SageAdvice - Tabaxi Shadow Monk Assassin

I'm currently leaning towards:

11 Way of the Shadow Monk
Flurry of blows
Unarmored Defense
Martial Arts: 1d8 ki-empowered unarmed strikes
Unarmored Movement
Deflect Missles
Slow Fall
Extra Attack
Stunning Strike
Evasion
Stillness of Mind
Unarmored Movement Improvement (along walls/over water)
Purity of Body (immune to poison/disease)
Shadow Arts: Darkness, Pass without Trace, Silence, Minor Illusion
Shadow Step
Cloak of Shadows

Assassin 3
2d6 Sneak Attack
Cunning Action
Poisoner's Kit
Assassinate (if target = surprised & lower initiative, Adv + auto crit)

Gloomstalker Ranger 3
Hunters Mark (+1d6 per hit)
Dread Ambusher: Wisdom mod added to initative bonus, move speed, Additional Attack for 1 round + 1d8 damage
Umbral Sight: Increased Darkvision, when in darkness: invisibilty to creatures relying on darkvision

Alert feat for that ever imporant iniative (but im not sure which level to take this at)

This gets me to level 13.

Monk 11 + Assassin 3 + Ranger 3 = 17 levels, so not sure if I missed something that kept you at level 13.

Two levels of Bard could eventually net you +3 more on initiative, FWIW, better than the Gloomstalker unless your wisdom is 16. (Not to discount the other assassin-gloomstalker synergies.)
 
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djtigon1

First Post
Sorry i ment 17 (edited my first post and fixed that)

And yes my wisdom is high due to monk giving me bonus AC from it due to Unarmored Defense

So yeah I'm looking for advice on my last 3 levels (or more if someone can provide a good argument for not going all the way to 11 monk)
 

Andre Situation

First Post
Why nobody here has mentioned the "Oath of Treachery" Paladin? It's thematically related to a roguish character, and her synergies are awesome for a true assassin, both archetype features and bonus spells are extremely useful...
 

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