[GUIDE] My Word Is My Sword: The Paladin Guide

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Expeditious Retreat work nicely with Find Steed.

Conjure Volley, while not gotten until 17th, is a DEX save vs. your CHR-based DC, it does not need DEX or attack rolls.



To me the fact that this can happen every round you meet the conditions with no per-rest limit, and is affecting CHR creatures, so probably 3-4 when you get it up to 5 later on. That's pretty amazing. Paladins don't have a lot to deal with hordes, but the benefit off a horde is that you can drop someone every turn. So this helps them shine in what is traditionally a place they are only so-so. And it's useful to some degree the rest of the time.

Plus it has synergy with the CD for an extended crit range.
I agree. Mighty Deed is much better than it was rated. Paladins are the kings at killing things early in fights. This allows you to go KO a minion, buff the party and then charge onto the next minion to repeat.
 

Gladius Legis

Explorer
Well, I see your points about killing minions for the buff or debuff. That is quite good in a battle against a group of multiple moderate to weak enemies. In a battle against a boss it's a bit less reliable. Even a Polearm Master or dual-wielder with 3 attacks/round, Legendary Strike and advantage from somewhere will "only" have a 47% chance of landing a crit in any given round. And less than that in the first round (34% with advantage) because Legendary Strike takes a bonus action to activate (and thus no PM/off-hand attack).

I could see bumping Mighty Deed to blue because of minion battles. Doubt I'd bump it to sky blue.

EDIT: Elven Accuracy DEX dual-wielder with advantage + Legendary Strike has 47% to crit round 1 and 61% rounds 2+. Better, but still a significant chance you won't crit.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Well, I see your points about killing minions for the buff or debuff. That is quite good in a battle against a group of multiple moderate to weak enemies. In a battle against a boss it's a bit less reliable. Even a Polearm Master or dual-wielder with 3 attacks/round, Legendary Strike and advantage from somewhere will "only" have a 47% chance of landing a crit in any given round. And less than that in the first round (34% with advantage) because Legendary Strike takes a bonus action to activate (and thus no PM/off-hand attack).

I could see bumping Mighty Deed to blue because of minion battles. Doubt I'd bump it to sky blue.

EDIT: Elven Accuracy DEX dual-wielder with advantage + Legendary Strike has 47% to crit round 1 and 61% rounds 2+. Better, but still a significant chance you won't crit.
Maybe, I still feel like it's one of the better ones.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Guided Strike: Lv. 3, Channel Divinity (1 total/short rest). Stolen from the War Cleric, +10 to a single attack roll. Mostly there for when you REALLY need to hit with an active Wrathful Smite on the first attack of combat, which can be a big deal in a few levels.
I don't see where you have considered what this feature does to NOVA potential during the early turns of a fight. To me that makes it pretty impactful.
 

delph

Explorer
From the official Sage Advice:



Also from the Sage Advice:



(So what's in the official SA is, in fact, considered official for the game, not just guiding.)
but it's still possible make it between attack, if you have more attack, isn't it? when you take on 4th lvl shield master, you wil get extra attack in 5th lvl... no big lack in this. And if you are one of first after enemy's turn you can attack, shove, attack and then everyone after you and before him.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
but it's still possible make it between attack, if you have more attack, isn't it? when you take on 4th lvl shield master, you wil get extra attack in 5th lvl... no big lack in this. And if you are one of first after enemy's turn you can attack, shove, attack and then everyone after you and before him.
Best to avoid the shield master debate no? You do know there’s a good number that based on the latest information and sage advice disagree with that assessment?
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad hair day
but it's still possible make it between attack, if you have more attack, isn't it? when you take on 4th lvl shield master, you wil get extra attack in 5th lvl... no big lack in this. And if you are one of first after enemy's turn you can attack, shove, attack and then everyone after you and before him.
The wording from SA is "During your turn, you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play."

There's debate on this, nothing clearly lined out that I am aware. (And I'd be glad to be proven wrong.) Is "after you have taken" and "must be satisfied" mean started or finished?

The argument for is along the lines that if a character has taken at least one attack, then they have taken the Attack action and can use the Shield Master bonus attack.

The argument against is that the wording implies it must be satisfied, completed.

The other argument against is that the only thing that can interrupt an Action is a Reaction. A Bonus Action can not do it. This is why the Attack action needs a special exemption to allow movement between extra attack.

That last one I find telling, and would explain why there isn't more clarification - it's already covered by other rules and may not of even occurred as a possible case to address.
 

Ivresse

Villager
Was just wondering with regards to the shield mastery feat and the conversation that has been going on here, would shield mastery still not be a worthwhile feat to an Oath of Conquest paladin, to be able to shove an enemy using a bonus action rather than one of your attacks and thus get full use of all of your available attacks while emitting the aura of conquest and keeping him prone?
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Was just wondering with regards to the shield mastery feat and the conversation that has been going on here, would shield mastery still not be a worthwhile feat to an Oath of Conquest paladin, to be able to shove an enemy using a bonus action rather than one of your attacks and thus get full use of all of your available attacks while emitting the aura of conquest and keeping him prone?
Useful sure - compared to other options - purely inferior.

Consider polearm master and a spear - You can use your first attack to attempt to prone - granting you advantage on your other attacks. You get an extra attack against already prone enemies or against enemies that are too large to prone.
 
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