Guns in a Renascence Era Campaign

[James Lockart]

Okay, here's the thing, I got drafted to GM our next game because our GM wants to actually play. So i'm dredging up an old campaign I played with another group and have worked it fairly well into D&D 4e. The issue is it was a Renascence like setting and guns were right along side of bows. D&D really has dodged that bullet, getting rid of even the gnomes and the smokepowder weapons. So i would like to know opinions on this...

* I will allow players to buy "firearms" buy purchasing a hand crossbow (pistol,) crossbow (musket,) or superior crossbow (rifle) at 120% normal cost.
* The weapons are Minor 2 Load so the player can only take a standard action (or trade it in) the same turn as they load.
* Damage Die increases by 1 size.
* firearms are high crit weapons
* on a nat 1 attak roll the weapon jams and takes a standard action to clear. Doing so will provoke.
* Firearms are treated as crossbows for feats and powers, but can only be reduced to a Load Minor instead of a load free.
* Ranges will be equivalent to their "conventional" counterpart.

I'm not looking for realistic, trust me, i know enough about firearms to write a supplement. I am looking for a "fair" and balanced way of adding these to the games without making them OP or UP. as is, the highest damage die a gun would have is a D12, range 50 (assuming a Long Rang Superior crossbow is used as a base.)

 

[Herobizkit]

that's exactly what I've suggested in other threads of this type. You have it handled.

 

[James Lockart]

Any advice on blunderbuss like weapons or just leave them out for simplicity? The Needle Pistol and Bolt-shard weapons are already similar.

 

[Ryujin]

If you're going to allow them to be used under crossbow proficiency, as a simple ranged weapon, then I would suggest that you make them "load standard" instead. This would balance the greater damage. Also, while I realize that you aren't going for realism, there's nothing wrong with adding a little of it. A cavalry type, with a half dozen "horse pistols" secreted about his person, makes for a pretty good mental image for a player.

The alternative would be to make them require a Superior Weapon proficiency and keep the rules as you've stated them.

As to the blunderbuss I think that I'd make it a very short range, big damage, single target weapon. Avoid area attacks, for simplicity.

 

[Ferghis]

Your rules look great. If you want to see what someone else did, the Zeitgeist campaign (made here at Enworld) has firearm rules for 4e, and some of the optional rules are very interesting. The basic campaign or player guide is free, so it would cost you nothing.

 

[Advilaar]

All sounds good, but there is more to add.

Guns are vs. reflex not vs AC. Should work as long as setting does not include armor which can block bullets. In that case, you need some kind of armor piercing rating. Back when I did something simular in 3e, I considered it stength mod to damage like the old composite bows had and gave modern armor DR. After all, isn't the firearm just using chemical strength and speed to get through materials?

Also, early firearms also may not work in very moist conditions. (wet gunpowder)

 

[James Lockart]

I was thinking of a very rare (read "story line") item known simply as "Ablative Armor." When hit by an attacked from a firearm, the attacker must roll a D20. Anything less than 20 and the attack is stopped, but the DC drops by 1. This would continue until the armor is removed or depleted. Guns are very much AC attacks. Lets face it, bows and the like target AC, bullets travel a lot faster. I can see rational for being vs Reflex, but if bows and crossbows don't then you can't justify the handgun and musket.
I am keeping track of the "humidity."An over arching theme of the campaign is that technology and magic are both powerful but in different ways so i fully plan to exploit this.

 

[Advilaar]

I was thinking of a very rare (read "story line") item known simply as "Ablative Armor." When hit by an attacked from a firearm, the attacker must roll a D20. Anything less than 20 and the attack is stopped, but the DC drops by 1. This would continue until the armor is removed or depleted. Guns are very much AC attacks. Lets face it, bows and the like target AC, bullets travel a lot faster. I can see rational for being vs Reflex, but if bows and crossbows don't then you can't justify the handgun and musket.
I am keeping track of the "humidity."An over arching theme of the campaign is that technology and magic are both powerful but in different ways so i fully plan to exploit this.

The reason we did it vs reflex (ranged touch in 3e) was a kind of way to deal with the uselessness of armor. However, force armor such as the 3e bracers could help with bullets. We eventually had to go with an armor piercing rating, because as the war became more deadly with all these caster guns out there, only a fool would show up in plate. You needed battle golem armors and liberal contingent walls of force. i needed a way to deal with folks encased in adamantium battle mechs.

Our campaign got pretty wild, though. They started making bullets of spellstoring and the like. If firearms were not enough, imagine bullets with meteor swarm on them . Or nukes coated with 3e anti magic shell to pierce through foce domes over enemy cities. 4e toned that stuff way down, though.

Just to give you an idea how wild, think epic great wyrms with class levels with magic armor with special cockpits for orc machine gunners

I doubt your sounds that crazy. Good luck.

 

[Derren]

Just to give you an idea how wild, think epic great wyrms with class levels with magic armor with special cockpits for orc machine gunners

Remove the magic and downgrade the machine guns to muskets and you have just described the Temeraire books.

 

[Advilaar]

Anyways, stepping back from a thundercats inspired high tech vs magic scenario back to a strict renaaisnce deal, I do have some sugestions from experience about this 'ablative armor".

First off, if it can stop a bullet - even a musket, a crossbow is nothing. No need for second rolls or anything. It sounds like old 3e bracers which is force armor. I would just adjust this to reflex and AC of those wearing it. Make it +6 if you want without care to 4e limits on how much low levels can benifit from pluses. D20 modern and Star wars called it "equptment bonuses". That way, those players at your table will not feel screwed taking up skills in firearms only to have to roll damn near two nat 20s to get through it.