GURPS Lite for 4.0 Now Available
- Thread starter WayneLigon
- Start date
Ugh. One thing I always hated about GURPS was their definition of what point value corresponds to an exceptional character, and this edition makes it even worse - they've made IQ and DEX cost 20 character points for each point of attribute increase, and characters with point values of 100+ are now considered "heroic".
I guess that, being 6'1" and stronger than average for my size, reasonably dextrous, fairly smart (being a scientist and all), and with a handful of very-hard skills, I'm a heroic character by GURPS standards. Hell, I'm built with more points than a star athlete. :\
I guess that, being 6'1" and stronger than average for my size, reasonably dextrous, fairly smart (being a scientist and all), and with a handful of very-hard skills, I'm a heroic character by GURPS standards. Hell, I'm built with more points than a star athlete. :\
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
mmu1 said:
Dude, your disads must really suck. Being an athletic scientist is great and all, but if you have to be a one-eyed kleptomaniac with a dependant grandmother who is always underfoot ... well, that's just a hard life.
tauton_ikhnos
First Post
Looks good. Very happy.
WizarDru
Adventurer
Random Thoughts after a quick read-through:
Hmmm. No radical changes to the core dice mechanic, there. Not suprising, but it seems somewhat...overly broad to me, now.
Character disads are recommended at 50% of starting points? Holy Moley! That's a serious step-up. I have no idea how well that would work in practice. Imagine a 500 point Supers character with 250 points of disads?
Variable cost for the attributes! Big change, there. ST and HT are cheaper than DX or IQ by 10 points a level (ie. 10 vs. 20). Hit points are now based on ST, not HT, and Fatigue is based on HT, not ST. Interesting. Basic speed is HT+DX/4, not ST....am I misrembering here, or does it look like HT and ST have been swapped in a lot of places, function-wise?
No Eidetic Memory, I notice.
Point values are much more open-ended...there's a clear acknowledgment that 100 point campaigns may not be the norm, and it doesn't appear to focus as tightly on caps to some advantages. All the resistable disads now fail on a flat roll...clearly an attempt to avoid abuse. Mixed feelings on that, I suppose.
Skills now default to generics, it looks like, and no defaulting to other, similar skills. Not bad I suppose, but the defaults were something I rather liked...knowing that someone with a doctorate in calculus could do simple math fairly well. Easier to follow, though....and now, there's only three categories of skill difficulty, not four (no Very Hard).
Some new damage types, instead of the classic three: burning, impaling and small, normal and large piercing? Ah: Impaling is for melee weapons like a sword or rapier, while piercing is now for ballistic weapons, like a gun. Interesting.
Combat: Move speeds are modified by THIRDS? Ugh. Combat is still second-by-second, something I grew to really dislike. I never had a combat that lasted longer than 20 seconds, with one exception, in 15 years. That bugged me. Modifiers are spelled out much more logically, now. Some features are now version of the same manuever, instead of separate ones. Very clean layout, which is an improvment.
Damage: for lite, it looks like there are no hit locations, just general damage. I assume the regular version will still have the damage locations system as per the third edition.
Overall thoughts: Not bad. Mostly just a simple cleaning up of the rules, with some minor changes...but nothing radical. Mostly just some bug-fixes, and a little rewiring. Removing the Very Hard skill category and making DX and IQ more expensive than ST and HT is the only major changes that I see. It certainly won't invalidate that back catalog of supplementary material much, if at all. No real temptation to go back to GURPS, based on this. It's a better GURPS, but I'm no longer the big fan of that system that I once was. It's great for some things, though, and I might pick up the new hardbacks to enjoy flipping through them.
Hmmm. No radical changes to the core dice mechanic, there. Not suprising, but it seems somewhat...overly broad to me, now.
Character disads are recommended at 50% of starting points? Holy Moley! That's a serious step-up. I have no idea how well that would work in practice. Imagine a 500 point Supers character with 250 points of disads?
Variable cost for the attributes! Big change, there. ST and HT are cheaper than DX or IQ by 10 points a level (ie. 10 vs. 20). Hit points are now based on ST, not HT, and Fatigue is based on HT, not ST. Interesting. Basic speed is HT+DX/4, not ST....am I misrembering here, or does it look like HT and ST have been swapped in a lot of places, function-wise?
No Eidetic Memory, I notice.
Point values are much more open-ended...there's a clear acknowledgment that 100 point campaigns may not be the norm, and it doesn't appear to focus as tightly on caps to some advantages. All the resistable disads now fail on a flat roll...clearly an attempt to avoid abuse. Mixed feelings on that, I suppose.Skills now default to generics, it looks like, and no defaulting to other, similar skills. Not bad I suppose, but the defaults were something I rather liked...knowing that someone with a doctorate in calculus could do simple math fairly well. Easier to follow, though....and now, there's only three categories of skill difficulty, not four (no Very Hard).
Some new damage types, instead of the classic three: burning, impaling and small, normal and large piercing? Ah: Impaling is for melee weapons like a sword or rapier, while piercing is now for ballistic weapons, like a gun. Interesting.
Combat: Move speeds are modified by THIRDS? Ugh. Combat is still second-by-second, something I grew to really dislike. I never had a combat that lasted longer than 20 seconds, with one exception, in 15 years. That bugged me. Modifiers are spelled out much more logically, now. Some features are now version of the same manuever, instead of separate ones. Very clean layout, which is an improvment.
Damage: for lite, it looks like there are no hit locations, just general damage. I assume the regular version will still have the damage locations system as per the third edition.
Overall thoughts: Not bad. Mostly just a simple cleaning up of the rules, with some minor changes...but nothing radical. Mostly just some bug-fixes, and a little rewiring. Removing the Very Hard skill category and making DX and IQ more expensive than ST and HT is the only major changes that I see. It certainly won't invalidate that back catalog of supplementary material much, if at all. No real temptation to go back to GURPS, based on this. It's a better GURPS, but I'm no longer the big fan of that system that I once was. It's great for some things, though, and I might pick up the new hardbacks to enjoy flipping through them.
tauton_ikhnos
First Post
mmu1 said:
Not exactly.
1. Your attributes, based on your description, come out to around 80-120 points. Your skills might jump that up to 100-150 points. Most of the GURPS advantages are cinematic, so we can probably assume you don't have them, or if you do, only at quirk level. We still haven't counted your disadvantages, and don't forget that just being a decent person is a disadvantage in GURPS. Are you generally law abiding? Willing to do anything for your family? Ever served in the military? You get points back for those. And (likely common on these boards) things like poor vision, or being oblivious when focused on a task, also get points back. Most of your disadvantages will be less extreme than the GURPS versions of course, but they are probably at least -5 each.
2. Those point ranges assume your starting value. How old are you? How many "sessions" have you had? At 2-3 points per session, you could easily amass another 50-100 points on top of your starting value, mostly in skills and contacts and wealth. Your starting power level didn't change, though, and people don't become Heroic just because they're 70 years old.
3. Finally, these rules assume a built and designed character, which you aren't. Let's say that you end up being 150 points. A 150 point character would eat you for breakfast. So GURPS isn't really saying that you are Heroic - it's just saying that someone built on as many points as you would be Heroic. It's possible to build a really inefficient character, and it's a recognized fact that inefficient characters are underpowered for their power level. Most real human beings, alas, are inefficient.
One huge change: Dodge, Parry and Block now are based off of 3+basic move or 3+(1/2 the skill) rather than just Basic Move or 1/2 skill - but Passive Defense for armor seems to have gone away, it just gives DR (about as much as in the 3rd edition). Shields still do provide a bonus to all your active defenses. (from +1 to +3)
I was wondering how they were going to deal with how easy it was to make someone with a Parry high enough to work 90+ percent of the time, and I was hoping for some contest of skills type solution, not this...
I was wondering how they were going to deal with how easy it was to make someone with a Parry high enough to work 90+ percent of the time, and I was hoping for some contest of skills type solution, not this...
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