GURPS or HERO?

[jdrakeh]

Unlike suggested above, HERO does in fact have plenty of material statted up for you already.

I should have been more specific -- the amount of pre-constructed fantasy material in HERO FRED is scant. It tells you how to build these things but the actual amount of pre-constructed content is very slim compared to that which appears in the GURPS core books. HERO does, in fact, contain numerous examples of pre-constructed super powers and all manner of things related to superheroic comics.

This, I think, is largely due to the fact that the implied setting of GURPS is one of fantasy, while that of HERO is one of comic book heroes. This being the case, GURPS dedicates more page space in its core books to fantasy elements and HERO more to superheoric elements. YMMV, though that's been my experience with all editions of both systems.

For the record, if the OP wanted to play a supers campaign, I'd recommend HERO (as this is one thing that GURPS still handles very poorly, IMO). Also, for the record, GURPS 4e provides a simple set of vehicle creation rules (GURPS Vehicles aka GURPS Nightmare of Math was a 3e issue).

 

[Avatar_V]

They are pretty similar (in fact, if memory serves, Steve Jackson has listed Champions as the inspiration for GURPS).

How they break down in gameplay though is in terms of "granularity". GURPS let's the Low Powered folks have a lot of uniqueness, whereas the higher power level you get, the more everyone looks the same.

HERO is just the opposite, the more high powered you get, the mroe differentiation the characters have, while lowbies are pretty much interchangeable.

Neither is an optimal choice if you are looking for somehting that "Emphasizes Roleplaying" over combat.

I mean, you can roleplay just fine...but both of these systems came into being as Physical Task Resolution Engines.

Hope that helps

It helps very much; thank you! Your description of HERO allowing characters to differentiate themselves more as they grow makes it sound more appealing to me than GURPS.

Regarding neither being ideal for emphasizing roleplaying - do you have better suggestions? I'm afraid I'm not very RPG-literate outside of D&D. I just know that during a lot of sessions, we don't break out a battle mat either because there is no combat or because it's simple enough that we abstract a lot of it away and don't need minis. Flipping through the GURPS book, there seemed to be a lot of places to spend points outside of combat-related stuff which was a breath of fresh air compared to the way that so many of the feats in the 'complete' D&D books strike me as being combat-centric. That said, I'd love to hear if there's an even better system out there for what I'm looking for!

Thanks, also, to all the others that have responded - the input has been very interesting and informative. Right now I'm trying to decide how much time I can commit to game prep. I think that what I'm reading makes HERO sound better (despite my homebrew world being basically fantasy) if I have the time that it evidently requires. I know I'd like to spend the time, just trying to decide for myself if that's realistic

Anyhow, thanks again. Please do keep the advice coming!

 

[Eltharon]

Check out GURPS lite at sjgames.com. It's a free 25-ish page download that has basic character creation rules and combat rules. While it doesn't have all the skills, advantages and disadvantages in the basic set, it gives you enough that you should be able to create a basic character or three and try a sample adventure or even just a sample combat.
I don't think HERO has a lite set, and I've never played it, so I'm afraid I can't help there.

edit: As for roleplaying, GURPS has plenty of RPing advantages and disadvantages, but diplomacy and interaction is still not lavishly detailed. Effectively, there is a reaction table which determines the NPCs initial reaction (Or the GM can choose). This is modified by appearance, status, advantages like Charisma or Voice (as in: Good Voice), and disadvantages such as odious personal habits (which cover things like constantly picking your nose or spitting) or stuttering, etc. Skills and such will influence the NPCs reaction (Bring it up or down). So it's pretty much a (much) more advanced version of the DnD system. When you get to more complicated systems, though, I feel it takes a lot of control out of the GM, and I don't like that. Some might, thats their preference. HERO, I have no idea. I can't imagine its hugely different.

By the way, the various reaction based advantages and disadvantages mean that you can't judge characters power level soley on their points. A 200 point character might be beautiful, skilled in dipolmatic abilty, have the power to talk with animals and heal others, but have no combat ability whatsoever, while a 50 point medieval soldier might be ugly, stubborn, and cruel, but vicious in close combat.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Okay, if you want a reasonable, well-thought-out comparison, skip this reply. If, on the other hand, you are concerned what your non-gamer family, friends, and acquaintances will think, consider how they will react to the following scenarios:

You: I play Champions/Hero Fantasy.
Them: Oh. You're a gamer nerd.

OR

You: I play GURPS.
Them: What?!? Is that like Pokemon? Or did you belch?

---

The choice is clear.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

They are pretty similar (in fact, if memory serves, Steve Jackson has listed Champions as the inspiration for GURPS).

How they break down in gameplay though is in terms of "granularity". GURPS let's the Low Powered folks have a lot of uniqueness, whereas the higher power level you get, the more everyone looks the same.

No longer true in GURPS 4E, where it is very easy to differentiate at high power levels. This was true in 3E to some degree because of quirks in pricing attributes (increasing attributes at high levels cost far more than at low levels), but 4E has flat costs per level for them.

No, GURPS 4E can give you extremely unique characters even at high level. Though you might have to look at GURPS Powers (without buying it - just looking at it should be enough) to realize just how flexible the system really is.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

No, GURPS 4E can give you extremely unique characters even at high level. Though you might have to look at GURPS Powers (without buying it - just looking at it should be enough) to realize just how flexible the system really is.

Yeah, GURPS Powers was the book I was thinking of for converting the prebuilt GURPS experience into a more HERO-like behind-the-scenes, effects-based one.

Regarding neither being ideal for emphasizing roleplaying - do you have better suggestions? I'm afraid I'm not very RPG-literate outside of D&D. I just know that during a lot of sessions, we don't break out a battle mat either because there is no combat or because it's simple enough that we abstract a lot of it away and don't need minis. Flipping through the GURPS book, there seemed to be a lot of places to spend points outside of combat-related stuff which was a breath of fresh air compared to the way that so many of the feats in the 'complete' D&D books strike me as being combat-centric. That said, I'd love to hear if there's an even better system out there for what I'm looking for!

I'm not sure. What you're looking for - granular point-buy systems on the one hand, mechanics that drive roleplaying on the other, familiar enough to run with a group mostly familiar with D&D in the gripping hand - is a tough niche to fill.

If you absolutely want all three, Mutants and Masterminds is probably your best bet. Compared to GURPS or HERO, it has stronger narrative mechanics that put the ball in the players court when it comes to driving the action. IMX, that usually encourages roleplaying.

If you don't mind losing granularity (while keeping customizability) and moving further from the D&D mold, you might want to look into Spirit of the Century. It's a *very* different system, *much* lighter than GURPS, HERO, or D&D, and even lighter than BESM or M&M. Out of the box, it's designed for pulp (1920s-1940s high action) roleplaying, but it's extremely flexible. You can download a version of the FATE rules on which it runs for free here, although the free version of FATE isn't, in my opinion, quite as slick or well done as the full Spirit of the Century. For encouraging roleplaying, this is one of the best systems out there; if you can sell your players on it (and it practically sells itself, in my experience), they'll really get caught up in it.

 

[Andor]

I'm afraid I'm not very RPG-literate outside of D&D.

If you want to see how different you can get from D&D and still stay withing fantasy gaming, you should try and find a copy of Castle Falkenstein.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Gurps is modular, meaning you plug in new aspects of the system as you want to change your world. So if you wanted a varient magic system you'd have to write it from the ground up and assign costs to everything.

Again, no longer true. Writing up large numbers of variant magic systems is possible even with the Basic Set, though looking through GURPS Powers is neccessary just how flexible the system is.

You could write any of these in just a few minutes:

- Worshipers of Elemental Earth with Earth-based powers - who have to touch the naked earth to use their abilities.

- Demon summoners who gain both demonic allies and infernal abilities - but who have to sacrifice one human every month for their powers.

- Psions who warp reality with their minds alone (in fact, examples for psionic powers are given right in the Basic Set).

- Martial Artists who can do those cool martial arts moves from movies and anime (running impossibly fast, vaulting from tree to tree, kick through walls) - as long as they act like those martial artists from the movies.

- Priests of a deity of universal harmony who are so in tune with the cosmic tao that things simply seem to go right for them all the time.

- Shamans who can bargain with all sorts of spirits for temporary supernatural boons, but require lengthy rituals to do so.


And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[jdrakeh]

If you want to see how different you can get from D&D and still stay withing fantasy gaming, you should try and find a copy of Castle Falkenstein.

Or download the Indie RPG Award-nominated vs. Elves for free, here (see the Free Games page)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In 30 years of gaming I've owned about 100 RPGs, and played a few more- including some that never saw publication.

HERO is my favorite system of all time.

My personal experience with GURPS is limited to 2nd/3rd Eds, when I played with a lot of guys who were, among other things, GURPS playtesters. I understand from past discussions with Jürgen Hubert that some of my complaints have been fixed in the current edition.

HERO
Pros: Most flexible RPG I've ever played, bar none. Near-total genre transparency- a PC can be plucked from a traditional FRPG setting and placed into a sci-fi setting without any real rules changes. Once you jump the hurdle of PC generation, the game tends to run quite smoothly.

Cons: Some of the math in PC generation- while only simple addition, subtraction, multiplication & division- can be intricate at times, but there is a chart that makes it easier...and many Excel spreadsheets exist to make it simple to keep track of points. The game's very flexibility can cause confusion in PC gen simply because there may be thousands of ways to design a PC based on a particular concept.

GURPS
Pros: The best set of supplements in RPG history in terms of research, well-thought out design, and comprehensiveness. There is probably a GURPS supplement for any genre of role-playing there is. They're so good that, even though I dislike the system, I actually own and keep track of GURPS supplements.

Cons: Sometimes, the core rules differ from those in the supplements, or from supplement to supplement, reducing the system's claim to being "generic" and "universal." Occasionally, some of the powers are really expensive for the payoff- I remember 2Ed/3Ed Telekinesis as being extremely overpriced for the power you got.

and if I may...

You may have also seen a game called Mutants & Masterminds- if not, I suggest you check it out and give it serious consideration. Its nearly as flexible and internally consistant as HERO, but its mechanics are generally less mathematically convoluted. Its also evolved from the D20 system, so you and your prospective players will probably find it easier to learn than either HERO or GURPS. Its rules-light(er) approach to the D20 system reminds me a little bit of the Marvel Super-Heroes RPG, which for some may be a plus or a minus.

Like any really good superhero game, its capable of modeling PCs in any RPG genre, since superheroic settings are such a catchall of character concepts.

With each of the 3 RPGs listed above, all you really need to play is the single core book, your dice, and pencil & paper. However, each of the games also has an extensive product list to make play easier- gadget & equipment books, collections of foes, settings, etc.