Avatar_V said:
I've run D&D games for a while now. But, I'm thinking about trying out a new system. I enjoy D&D, but could use a change of pace.
I'd like a more general, flexible system because I house rule a
lot of stuff. I'm also hoping to find a system that emphasizes roleplaying more and combat less (my group prefers less combat).
I was looking at the GURPs character guide in my game store today and really liked the flexibility I saw. I understand that HERO is a similar system, though, so I was hoping that people here who have experience with these systems could advise me as to the differences and make a recommendation as to which they prefer.
Thanks in advance for the advice!
I'm gonna start out with a summary list of where i think the various options stand. If you want supporting detail as to why i think this, read on; otherwise, you can just read the list and be done.
- IMHO, don't bother with GURPS--if you like what it does, get CORPS instead.
- HERO is awesome, but very crunchy, and doesn't particularly give you the RPing emphasis you want, other than by being consistent so it won't get in your way. But it is awesomely consistent, and has tons of support material out there to do the work for you.
- M&MM and True20 are D20 System supers and universal games, respectively, and while neither is particularly RPing-oriented, they will be familiar, and handle most genres well enough, and are much simpler than GURPS, HERO System, or Tri-Stat dX. (and probably simpler than CORPS and BESM3, too.) And True20 has rudimentary support for social interactions--beyond just skill checks, that is.
- BESM3 and Tri-Stat dX will give you 95% of the functionality of HERO System, at about 25% of the work. Plus, they give roughly as much detail to social interactions as combat, but by treating them like combat. But you'll have to do any work beyond the rulebook yourself, because there's little or no support, unlike HERO System.
- Fudge is really a toolkit for designing exactly the system you want. And it will. But you'll have to pick and choose from the prebuilt systems in the rulebook, or build your own, before you can really get started. Which means as RPing-oriented, and non-combat-oriented, as you want it to be.
- FATE is built on top of Fudge, and its use of aspects makes it the first of these to really give all sorts of interactions, combat- and non-, equal attention. You'll need some new dice.
- Story Engine, and Story Bones, are systems that are built around the characters interacting with the setting and, as such, maybe even give combat short shrift. OTOH, i think they do the best job of any of these of really focusing the mechanics on the RPing--and as good of a job as any system, while still being familiar-looking to traditional RPers.
OK, differences between GURPS and HERO System, speaking as someone with minimal experience with both:
GURPS feels like a hodgepodge to me. There's a character-creation system, which uses 4 stats, an extensive skill list, and then tons of advantages/disadvantages (many of which feel like kludges to make up for the overly-broad and unevenly-divided stats). You build characters with points, in theory assuring they're all about similar in pffectiveness. However, some of the skills and (dis)ads are clearly priced on utility, and some on rarity/difficulty. There's basic skill resolution, then there's 2 combat systems, the simpler of which is pretty much basic skill resolution, and the more complex of which is really very detailed, and at least seems realistic. Then you start getting into things like magic, psychic powers, and superpowers, and it's whole new add-on systems. Yes, they'll tie into the basics (like using skills and [new] (dis)ads to define them), but they're not something you could simply build out of the basic systems (or, for those things not in the core books, out of the core books), with any sort of reliability. The tools for creating new skills, (dis)ads, powers, etc., are much like those for building new feats in D&D3E--only there to the degree that you can reverse-engineer them from the examples already in the system. In fact, if you want something that's not alryeady there in GURPS, it's much like adding a new class or feat in D&D3E: a fair bit of work, and no guarantee it'll be balanced, etc. If you want detailed vehicles and tech, that's yet another new system or 3.
n.b.: All of the above is based on a detailed knowledge of GURPS3, but only a skim and some discussions of GURPS4. I gather some of this has been fixed, though the basic schizophrenic nature of the point-costing is still there (even if the more egregious cases have been fixed), and it still uses different systems to describe characters and, say, vehicles.
That said, if you're not tight on funds, someone has probably already done the work for you. There are a *lot* of GURPS sourcebooks, on just about every conceivable topic. And they are, without exception as near as i can tell, excellent. I buy the setting-based ones all the time, and have bought a couple of the rules-/topic-based ones, too, despite having no intention of ever playing GURPS [i tried it once; it's not for me].
HERO System, on the other hand, starts from the premise that
everything is part of one overarching system. You have stats (12 of them), skills, perks&talents, and powers. It doesn't matter if you're trying to describe a character, a battleship, a doberman, or a toaster, you use the samy systems and mechanics. And this whole system is costed on utility. So, like GURPS, you create a character by spending a pool of points. But unlike GURPS, things that are easy to learn but very powerful (poison creation) are consistently expensive, and things that are hard to learn but have minimal impact in most games (Ph.D. in medieval Scandanavian lit) are consistently cheap. The upside of this is that you don't need
anything beyond the core book. Ever. Period. All the tons of sourcebooks out there for HERO? They either describe settings, or give you specific applications of the rules from the core book--no new rules. The downside is that, well, it can be a bit of a pain to figure out the stats for a curling iron when someone uses it as an improvised weapon. [Though the experienced HERO System GMs i've seen have been able to do such things essentially instantly, and the rules give you plenty of weapon stats to start with. And, unlike GURPS, you can actually derive the stats to a new weapon from first principles, rather than approximating them by merely comparing to existing weapons.] And if you want things like racial packages and a specific magic system (i.e., an across-the-board set of limitations and techniques and so on), you'll need to construct those ahead of time.
But all of that assumes you're a stickler for rules and balance, and never fudge or wing it. If, as a group, you're cool with the GM winging minor details, and don't care if they perfectly match the book, a lot of those concerns go away. It's a lot like high-level characters in D&D3E: building an NPC exactly by the book, to the same degree of optimization as the PCs, is a detailed, complex, time-consuming process. Building the same NPC only to the level of detail required for the intended encounter, and with simplified techniques (i.e., simply max out class skills until you run out of points; or even just assume +level+3 for class skills, and no points in others, without ever spending them; don't figure out where every single bonus comes from, but make sure her total BAB is in line with PCs of the same level; etc.), can be a breeze.
Now, as for relative power levels. HERO System, because it uses a coarse scale designed to accommodate supers very well, tends to get a bit fuzzy at the low end of the scale. It's simply that the difference of one point of a stat is large enough that a
lot of normal people fall into it. As a hypothetical example, Oliver Queen and Bruce Wayne might look identical in HERO System stats. Whereas the differences between them would clearly show up in GURPS (even if they ended up being small differences, like a point or two in a stat). On the other end of the scale, you can differentiate between Galactus and, um, my comicbook knowledge fails me, so [some other cosmic-scale entity] with HERO System very handily, and use the game system to have them meaningfully interact mechanically. GURPS can certainly describe such beings, and clearly differentiate them, but unless GURPS4 has changed this, having them interact sorta breaks the system. The way dierolls work, at such extreme power levels, they only sorta make sense--it becomes sort of "who rolls crappy first", moreso than who has the better stats.
That said, both systems basically fulfill your desire for a universal system that can genuinely handle lots of settings, but neither of them is particularly less combat-oriented [than D&D3E]. Yes, both have plenty of non-combat (dis)ads and skills (unlike D&D3E), but both of them are clearly products of the 80s, despite their many revisions since then, and the game mechanics focus on combat. Each has a lengthy chapter on combat and physical harm, but neither has any sort of, say, detailed duel-of-wits mechanics. Both have ways you can quantify character reputation, influence, honor, etc., but neither gives you anything more detailed than the basic skill system for dealing with these.
Also, there are several systems that do roughly the same things, but that you might prefer. Mutants and Masterminds (M&MM) has been described as "HERO Lite", and it very much is. Pretty much the same design philosophy, but with a bit less detail, and a bit less effort. For most people, it's "good enough", in going in that direction. Personally, the D20isms show through too much for me--particularly the relatively wide variability of the die in comparison with the range of character stats--but for a group only familiar with D&D3E, that's probably a bonus feature. Still, no real attention given to non-combat interactions.
True20 is a system that comes out of the fusion of M&MM and Blue Rose, and is a generic system designed for all possibilities. Despite a powers system that is a streamlined version of M&MM, it feels more like GURPS than HERO System to me. Nonetheless, it should be instantly familiar to D&D3E players, since it's the same system, and is probably generic enough to handle most anything--at least in roughly the same sorts of ranges (of power and setting) as GURPS. And while it panders to the notion of social interactions, it's really only a step more specific than the equivalent rules in D&D3E.
CORPS is, IMHO, "a better GURPS than GURPS". I find that it does everything that GURPS does, often with greater detail/accuracy, and for about a quarter the headaches. It handles about the same power levels well, and starts to get a bit weird at about the same high-power point; it provides about the same level and sort of detail; and it requires you to go beyond the book for vehicles. However, it has a built-in power system that i think is excellent, and, like i said, i find it more consistent and simpler. I get just as much bang, for less buck [effort, that is].
BESM3 or Tri-Stat dX are universal systems that have also been described as "HERO's little brother" or "HERO Lite", and i think fully live up to the claim. Like HERO, they give you all the tools to do whatever you want, right from the core book. Like HERO, they even have powers in there that might break the game, with specific notes to the GM to watch out for them. But unlike HERO, they're not quite as complex, or detailed. Frex, they only use 3 core stats, rather than 12. I think they're both excellent. Tri-Stat dX is perhaps a bit more flexible and "universal", but at the cost of requiring a bit more set-up. It's also much cheaper. BESM3 is in print, and a bit more fleshed out, but you'd also be buying a big fat rulebook full of anime stuff (setting, GMing style advice) that you might not want, and is therefore considerably more expensive. But maybe a better introduction to the system for someone without a lot of RPG background. Either version gives you the tools to give non-combat interactions just as much detail and importance as combat interactions--by using the same system and turning them into a sort of combat. Still, it's one of the few universal systems to do so, and while still differentiating it a bit.
Fudge/FATE: Fudge is a free universal system, available in hardcopy as a nice fat hardcover with the core system and lots of examples/instantiations of the rules. With the hardcover, you'll have everything you need to go, including the most excellent "5-pt Fudge" variant, and a magic system tuned for it. It also has systems for pretty much everything else you might want: dogfighting, netrunning, firearms, social interactions, kung-fu--you name it. But, perhaps even moreso than Tri-Stat dX or HERO System, it's a toolkit as much as a game system. Most groups, especially if they're used to a more concrete system like D&D3E, will likely want to sit down and figure out which rules you're going to use, and maybe create some things ahead of time, before getting to chargen and play. Even with Tri-Stat dX and HERO System, i think a group could sit down, agree upon a genre/setting, and make characters right out of the book, just choosing to only create characters that fit that genre/setting. That would be harder to do with Fudge, without at least first deciding what stats you're using, and what scale, and some other basics. On the upside, you could build a game with as much mechanical detail on social/political interactions as D&D3E has for combat, and minimal combat detail, with great ease.
FATE does that work for you. It's a "story-oriented" RPG built on the FUDGE engine. It's basically the same system as found in Spirit of the Century, which some others have recommended, though without a couple refinements. Of the universal systems i've mentioned, i think it comes the closest to doing what you want: the nature of aspects and how gameplay and character advancement proceed is such that RPing is primary, and combat is just another way to act out the RPing. Also, it's available for free download. For both Fudge and FATE, you will want to buy some Fudge dice.
Now, you want something that's completely focused on the RPing and creation of the story, while still giving you character stats and other such familiar RPGisms, I'd actually recommend Story Engine, by Hubris Games. It is, sadly, long out of print, but you might be able to find a copy online. And PIG is coming out with a new edition in the not-too-distant future, though i have no idea how it might be changed. You might also be able to find a copy of the free Story Bones floating around on the net somewhere. I don't think it's quite as elegent as Story Engine, largely because it's less detailed and specific, but it might at least give you a feel for whether Story Engine is for you. Though it might also give a misleading impression ,precisely because of how they differ. I think FATE stole the way it uses aspects from Story Engine (though maybe unknowingly--i have no idea if the folks behind FATE ever saw Story Engine).
