GURPS-Share your thoughts

[Ethernaut]

I've never played GURPS but i like what i'm hearing about the supplements. Those that enjoy them, what would you say are the top five supplement books out there? And are they generic enough to be applied to a d20 game, or any other system?

In no particular order...
1. Fantasy 4e - useful for any fantasy game
2. Cabal - my favorite modern fantasy setting
3. Horror 3e - useful for any horror game
4. Voodoo/Spirits - my favorite magic system... which can be adapted to other games
5. Goblins - best read of any of the supplements... though perhaps not as useful

Also, most historical supplements are top notch

 

[Ethernaut]

On the other hand, this extra effort is only a one-time cost, paid up-front. Updating the character between sessions will typically take much *less* time than in D&D, so over the course of the character's life span you actually spend way less time doing character creation than in D&D.

Amen to that. I couldn't agree more.

 

[Numion]

On the other hand, this extra effort is only a one-time cost, paid up-front. Updating the character between sessions will typically take much *less* time than in D&D, so over the course of the character's life span you actually spend way less time doing character creation than in D&D.

On the other hand you don't update your D&D character unless it levels. And I don't know who you've been playing with, but levelling in D&D is pretty quick. Only thing that might take time if one hasn't thought about is choosing new spells for sorcerer and wizard.

A great many disadvantages (and advantages, for that matter) are inappropriate for many campaigns. This is intentional - with GURPS 4e the authors wanted to have everything for creating any conceivable character inside the Basic Set. This was a different design goal than what the creators of D&D intended, which focuses on a specific genre, and it is not an inherent weakness of the system.

Yeah, but if those options aren't compatible with each other, or require a lot of DM .. sorry, GM, adjudication, it's not really universal, is it?

I mean, just because it is possible within the rules to buy Social Status 7 and proclaim: "My character is the President of the United States!", there is no reason why the GM should allow this unless he plans a GURPS West Wing campaign. Likewise, if the campaign is a one-shot adventure that lasts only for short time frame, there is no reason at all why he should allow "Terminally Ill". This disadvantage is only suitable for longer campaigns where racing to either find a cure or some sense of closure for the character adds dramatic tension to it, and any GM worth his salt should realize.

But it would be darned funny to slip something like that past the GM, wouldn't it? The look on the GMs face when in mid-game during a scene in a cafeteria you reveal that you're the POTUS, "see GM, right here on the advantages .."

EDIT: It would become even more comical when it became clear that the player had taken "crack addict", "albino" and "hunchback" to pay the points to be the POTUS

Heh, heh .. crack addict albino hunchback president .. I crack myself up!

 

[billd91]

Actually, I'd have to strongly disagree with this. It's an issue I've heard brought up before by people who are used to D&D's flat d20 roll.

To me, the outcome of a 3d6 mechanic is much *more* intuitive, even though I can't necessarily calculate the exact probabilities in my head. "Intuition" has nothing to do with being able to do statistics on the fly. Rather, it has everything to do with being able to follow your gut feeling. Our human brain has to deal with bellcurve-shaped probabilities in the world around us every day. So once you can get away from the bad habit of trying to do statistical calculations when you should be roleplaying, 3d6 actually winds up being more intuitive than d20...

You find it MORE intuitive that a -2 on the check affects a character whose target number is 12 significantly more (effectively -24%) than a character whose target number is 16 (effectively -8%) compared to a -2 giving all characters a -10% lower chance of success?

I find that curious.

 

[Conaill]

You find it MORE intuitive that a -2 on the check affects a character whose target number is 12 significantly more (effectively -24%) than a character whose target number is 16 (effectively -8%) compared to a -2 giving all characters a -10% lower chance of success?

I find that curious.

Yes it does (See? You're calculating percentages again. Stop that. )

If you're attempting something while you're subject to some kind of penalty, when does that penalty matter most? The person with really high skill isn't really going to care - he'll succeed anyway. The person with a really poor skill isn't really going to care either - he'll probably fail anyway. But for the person who only has a 50-50 chance of succeeding to begin with, that -2 penalty can make all the difference.

Let's turn the situation around: Say you're an archer with one +2 arrow left, in a quiver full of normal arrows. When should you decide to use that last +2 arrow during the course of a combat? D&D would tell you "Fire it at any time. Doesn't matter what your chances of hitting are, the +2 gives you an even 10% higher chance, translating in a fixed average increase in damage." GURPS on the other hand would tell you "Better wait for a good opportunity to use that arrow. Don't waste it on shots which you'll probably fail anyway, or on ones you are likely to make even without the +2. Instead, use it when you think the extra +2 might be just enough to put you over the edge".

Which one sounds more intuitive to you?

 

[Harmon]

Played GURPs 3e for 10 yrs- loved the system and liked the idea that you could do nearly anything with it.

As a GM its better to work on the fly, because making up all those characters, monsters, and such could be overwhelming

Cheat sheets and such are a must as well as Player assistance with the rules is a great help.

Recently I have been playing with the idea of a fantasy no magic campaign in the GURPs system.

As far as the differences- there are only a few differences that I have noticed so far and most of them are small. 3e had a few small holes and 4e plugged them nicely.

 

[mmu1]

I like GURPS a lot - in theory. It's gritty, it's detailed, it allows for complex character concepts.

In practice, I have yet to play in a really enjoyable GURPS game. This is largely because it's, in my experience (and I've tried a lot of games) almost impossible to find players and GMs who understand the system well, and want to learn all the "optional rules". As a result, most things are resolved with the basic ruleset, which is - as someone pointed out earlier - dry, dreary and simplistic, with no flavor or character.

Also, I find that most GMs, rather than accepting how deadly GURPS combat is (and the fact that it should be used as a last resort) simply find ways to fudge around it - which means that a lot of the time, I was sitting there rolling my eyes at the fact we were still alive when I could think of twelve different ways to kill the party if the enemies had been played competently using the complete combat rule set.
(I don't mean this as a personal attack - and I realize that there might have been circumstances I'm not aware of - but on the surface, reading about something like a combat between PCs and multiple ogres sort of makes me cringe. The fact there were no multiple fatalties as a result of fighting extremely strong monsters so tough they could be hit multiple times and keep on making their Health rolls to avoid passing out or dying tells me either punches were pulled, or the PCs were godlike. Four brutes that use even rudimentary tactics and can shrug off tons damage = let's all full-out attack one PC at the same time since we won't be able to dodge their blows anyway, so what do we need an active defense for = one dead PC)

While I suppose it's possible this could all be a huge coincidence and bad luck on my part, I believe that GURPS actually encourages the above - people strip out the complexity and deadliness beacuse it's too much for them, and you're left with a simplistic system without flavor.

Which also makes complete GURPS one of those settings that's absolutely murderous (for either the PCs or NPCs) if someone on one side of the table is significantly better at gaming the system, playing the game, roll-playing, whatever you want to call it. In D&D, if you don't plan your tactics well, you take an AOO. In GURPS, if you don't plan your tactics well, the first hit you take puts you out of the fight.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Yeah, but if those options aren't compatible with each other, or require a lot of DM .. sorry, GM, adjudication, it's not really universal, is it?

They are compatible, at least in GURPS 4e. They aren't appropriate for every campaign. It you are running a science fiction campaign, then Magical Aptitude is absolutely inappropriate, and so is taking psionic powers in a strictly historical campaign set in Revolutionary America.

The same is true for D&D, to some extent - if you are going to play in a Dark Sun campaign, then it would be kind of silly to buy metal armor at character creation just because metal armor is in the PHB.

But it would be darned funny to slip something like that past the GM, wouldn't it? The look on the GMs face when in mid-game during a scene in a cafeteria you reveal that you're the POTUS, "see GM, right here on the advantages .."

Well, if the GM is daft enough not to take a look at the character sheets...

The GM always has final say over what kind of character is appropriate for the campaign. It says so right in the Basic Set.

And in the PHB, for that matter...

EDIT: It would become even more comical when it became clear that the player had taken "crack addict", "albino" and "hunchback" to pay the points to be the POTUS

Heh, heh .. crack addict albino hunchback president .. I crack myself up!

Would probably work in a GURPS IOU campaign. In others, I don't think so...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Er. Rolemaster.

I see your Rolemaster and raise you by one Dangerous Journeys.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I see your Rolemaster and raise you by one Dangerous Journeys.

I raise you Synnibar.