GURPS-Share your thoughts

[Conaill]

Another datapoint regarding the complexity of the rule set:

By now, I've played D&D for about as many years as I played GURPS before that (about 3-4 years each - started playing D&D because I moved to an area where it was hard to find a GURPS game). Looking only at the "core" rules, I would say that D&D is somewhat more complex than GURPS.

However, within the Fantasy genre, D&D has far more additional variants and rules (e.g. all the Complete books etc) and complex interactions between them than GURPS has. One could argue that this means that a D&D player has more choices, but I'm not sure that argument holds up. For example, many prestige classes consist largely of a fixed package of abilities that you could buy piecemeal in GURPS as well.


As for lethality of GURPS vs D&D... I've never seen so many characters die as in the various D&D games I've played in. Sure, hitpoints are much lower in GURPS, but damage is much lower as well, and one typically gets hit less often than in D&D, so comparing the absolute number of hit points is rather pointless. The main difference is that in GURPS you have a comparatively very large buffer between unconsciousness and death. The equivalent in D&D might be if your 100hp Fighter would have to be reduced to -100hp to even start making Fort saves against death! The upshot is that unconsciousness may be somewhat more common in GURPS combat, but death is actually quite a bit less common. However, when it *does* occur, the consequences are typically mich more severe than in D&D. Death is not just a setback that most reasonably well-to-do adventurers can buy they way out off. At least in the campaigns I played in, resurrection was extremely rare and required direct divine intervention. (One notable example included the entire party going on a quest lasting close to a year real-time to bring back a favorite character.) On the other hand, characters did tend to be much longer-lived as well.

Mind you, of course you can play GURPS in an extremely lethal fashion. I remember some Shadowrun games we played using GURPS rules where characters were dropping like flies. Then again, that's Shadowrun for you.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Another datapoint regarding the complexity of the rule set:

By now, I've played D&D for about as many years as I played GURPS before that (about 3-4 years each - started playing D&D because I moved to an area where it was hard to find a GURPS game). Looking only at the "core" rules, I would say that D&D is somewhat more complex than GURPS.

However, within the Fantasy genre, D&D has far more additional variants and rules (e.g. all the Complete books etc) and complex interactions between them than GURPS has. One could argue that this means that a D&D player has more choices, but I'm not sure that argument holds up. For example, many prestige classes consist largely of a fixed package of abilities that you could buy piecemeal in GURPS as well.


As for lethality of GURPS vs D&D... I've never seen so many characters die as in the various D&D games I've played in. Sure, hitpoints are much lower in GURPS, but damage is much lower as well, and one typically gets hit less often than in D&D, so comparing the absolute number of hit points is rather pointless. The main difference is that in GURPS you have a comparatively very large buffer between unconsciousness and death. The equivalent in D&D might be if your 100hp Fighter would have to be reduced to -100hp to even start making Fort saves against death!

Well, not quite.

You start out with a certain pool of hit points, just like in D&D. For characters in reasonably realistic campaigns, this is relatively low, and a good hit with a sword or two, or a hit with most guns that aren't small-calibre will reduce that pool to zero - though armor can and will reduce the amount of injury dramatically, so armor is always a wise investment if it is available in the setting.

Of course, if the GM is willing to waive the suggested restrictions for realistic campaigns and the characters have enough character points to spend, they can purchase many more hit points than that. Thus you can have the barbarian berserker who gets hits with multiple sword strokes and is still standing. Not realistic, but hey - that's the whole point of high fantasy, isn't it?

However, once your hit points reach zero, you aren't yet in risk of dying. However, you are in risk of unconsciousness, and need to roll versus your Health score to see if you are still standing each round. Ordinary people will fall down very quickly, but very healthy people or people with strong wills (such as cinematic heroes) will remain standing for a much longer time...

Once your hit points drop to a negative value equal to your original hit points, you are really in trouble - there is a risk that you will die. If you fail a Health roll, you are done for (though a near miss means that there is still a chance of saving you). If you succeed, you remain alive... for now. More rolls need to be done at further multiples of your original hit point score - untill you reach -5x(original hit points), when your body has suffered injuries so severe that you die automatically.

Ordinary humans have about an even chance of surviving that roll, while healther people have pretty good odds. Still, there is always a chance that you will fail these rolls, which keeps combat tense and risky - usually, you can't just say: "I still have 23 more hit points until I drop dead!"

And I rather like this feature.

 

[woodelf]

I tend to look at GURPS as "90% of Hero, with 50% of the required effort".

Whereas for me, it feels like 50% of Hero, with 90% of the required effort. I've just never figured out what it gives me that Hero System doesn't give me either better, or easier. Ditto Tri-Stat dX, nowadays.

Personally, i think that everything that GURPS does, CORPS does better; several of the weaknesses of GURPS are fixed by CORPS; CORPS does it all with much less effort on my part; and the few weaknesses/holes CORPS has, GURPS has too, or GURPS has them worse. All of this based specifically on GURPS 3rd ed, however, so it's possible that the comparison is no longer correct with the new edition of GURPS. Nonetheless, IMHO, if you like the GURPS approach to a universal RPG set, skip it and pick up CORPS instead.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Whereas for me, it feels like 50% of Hero, with 90% of the required effort. I've just never figured out what it gives me that Hero System doesn't give me either better, or easier. Ditto Tri-Stat dX, nowadays.

Personally, i think that everything that GURPS does, CORPS does better; several of the weaknesses of GURPS are fixed by CORPS; CORPS does it all with much less effort on my part; and the few weaknesses/holes CORPS has, GURPS has too, or GURPS has them worse. All of this based specifically on GURPS 3rd ed, however, so it's possible that the comparison is no longer correct with the new edition of GURPS.

The new edition is much better, smoother, and flexible, and should now cover pretty much everything that GURPS does.