GURPS - What is it?

[Dr_Rictus]

I don't agree, IMO, that's what advantages, disadvantages, etc are for. Need a Willpower Boost, buy Will +x, need charisma, buy Charisma or Attractiveness.

Oh, it's true that the standard advantages let you differentiate between different mental abilities. It's not that you can't express those differences in GURPS, but neither is that the point of the criticism at hand. The point remains that all it takes is a high IQ to be good at all mental skills, which covers pretty much every kind of mental feat other than reaction rolls and fright checks. That's a pretty valid criticism of GURPS.

 

[Cyragnome]

I didn't read reaper's comment in exactly the same way, but you present a valid interpretation (probably even what he meant...better than I read it).
It *is* more abstracted, but it does come down to taste as well...I mean I could just as soon not feel that six characteristics is enough and decide I need FATAL, for example (as an aside I am a Hero/Champions player from way back...so # of characteristics is not an issue for me...read HERO has 14 different ones ) Another, smaller, but related point is to have tons of mental skills at the levels needed to actually have an effect is going to cost tons of points, whereas ST is going to effect every melee battle, armor worn, etc...so there is some balance. I do agree that the system isn't perfect, but which system is?

So Rictus, I'll agree to disagree with you on both points and call it that...

 

[Henry]

I think the 1-second combat turns are what really got to me. Especially in a fantasy setting, with ranged weapon specialists.
GM: Your turn, Archer.
Archer: I draw an arrow.
...
GM: OK, back to you, Archer. What this turn?
Archer: I nock the arrow to my bow.
...
GM: Archer-
Archer: Yeah, yeah. This turn, I aim.

You think that's bad, try firing and reloading a black-powder musket - that's one shot every 60 seconds. The advantage here is that Black-powder muzzle-loaders will be used EXACTLY was they were in real combat - you fired one shot, then you fell back on another weapon (bayonet or saber).

GUPS has some of the best sourcebooks in the industry, no matter whether you use the game or not. Highly recommended are GURPS
High-tech
Ultra-tech
Time Travel
Timeline
Alternate worlds
Fantasy
Fantasy II
Wild West

Great, great stuff - for both gaming and reading.

 

[med stud]

And in GURPs Alternate Earths, a scenario is included where Sweden runs an evil empire that have nuked Great Britain and keeps most of North America in check

 

[Henry]

Ah, yes - Shikkoku-Mon.

Does anyone know WHERE the HECK that parallel came from? I can relate to Roma Aeterna, or Gernsback, or Reich-5, or Dixie, but that one is so weird I couldn't come up with the flavor for it if I tried.

 

[med stud]

Shikkoku-Mon was the base for the most interresting campaign I DMed.

All of my players are pretty much politically interrested and pretty open minded on politics. So I made up a campaign where one of them was an undercover Swedish agent, very smart and charming, that was trying to etablish Synarchist (think Stalinist-Communist) cells in the capitilistic country, Brazil. The other were oppressed people who was fooled to believe in the greatness of the Swedish empire and the Synarchist thought. They role played very well, with one of them who became a traitor to the party, and sold out the organization to the Mega- corporations, one of them who doubted the violent means they used, and one who became totally obsessed with the violence and the political murders. In the center of all was the agent. It had to end, though, when half of the players decided to put down gaming for school

 

[qstor]

As a DM I enjoy the "realistic" aspects of GURPS combat. Even though I have been playing D&D for over a year. I still have problems with combat at higher levels. As d20 modern is being developed I hope it changes somewhat. 20th level fighter takes three rounds from an M16. Ok take your damage and now make your Fort save at +18 or what ever....

No hit location tables in D&D is another problem I have. GURPS has detailed hit location tables.

Add these in as house rules and D&D becomes less d20 and more a house rules game.

As a player as mentioned before I love the flexibility in GURPS. Your fighter can have a good pick lock score and a very decent to hit with a 100 point character. I'm glad that the skill system in D&D allows characters to take non class skills. That way I have give my fighter knowledge (history) or Pick Pocket.

But the complexity of the combat gets me down as a DM. And personaly I dont have enough rules knowledge to run a very good game and not get challenged on rulings by a GURPS rules lawyer. D&D is a relatively easy system and as mentioned before players are readily available. And as Vaxalon mentioned its easy to create adventures.

I also am a great fan of GURPS Traveller and will continue to purchase the books as they come out.

One comment about GURPS Supers. I think 750 points should be the benchmark for a "four color" game. With 500 points for a Dark Champions type game with PC's like the Vigilante or Batman. 1000 points should be reversed for ultrapowered PC's or villains such as Dr. Doom or the Hulk.

Just my 2 cents on a game that I like but have reservations about and I'm not playing it now..

Mike

 

[Rashak Mani]

I played very little... overall it seems like a very good system for REAL things. If you want adventures in a real modern world its great... a Real Medieval World its ok... but put in magic or super power or very very strong characters then it goes haywire....

 

[Synicism]

While no system is perfect, I do think that GURPS has some significant advantages. Recently, we just wrapped up a Deadlands campaign. We took Deadlands, Deadlands d20, and GURPS Deadlands and compared them and we came to the following conclusion:

GURPS encourages tactical thinking because it's damn deadly.

In Deadlands, a shot to the head from a .45 caliber pistol averages TWO wounds to a normal human (average 17.5 damage, divided by a 6 size). That means it takes an average of three head shots with a Colt peacemaker to drop someone. That doesn't exactly make for very scary gun duels at high noon.

In Deadlands d20, it gets even more ridiculous because of the hit point mechanic. It's a wonder anyone ever dies when a competent gunslinger has 5d10 hit points. It's not the wild west. It's Hong Kong Action, where shotgun blasts to the chest are minor inconveniences.

In GURPS Deadlands, you get shot in the head with a .45, chances are very, very good that you will *die.* Or at the very least get knocked into a coma.

This is just an example. GURPS encourages more realistic combat. A swordfight is a mobile series of attacks, parries, and dodges, usually until a single solid blow lands and someone gets crippled or killed. None of this silly hit point contest stuff. And so on.

 

[Henry]

Cyragnome - Here is my biggest problem with GURPS, and one that makes it hard for me to play with:

Take a 100 point character. Give him a 16 Intelligence (cost: 80 points). Spend the other 20 points on various mental skills, but DON'T spend more than one point on each skill.

In most mental skills, he will have a 63% chance to accomplish most tasks.

In any skill he has a single point in, he will have anywhere from a 90% (hard skill) to 98% chance (normal skill) to accomplish most tasks.

The same thing can be said about a very physical character with a 17 DEX. Most gun and ranged skills being normal or easy, he will hit 83% of the time without possessing any skill whatsoever!

With a high DEX or IQ, skill can be faked in GURPS with natural talent - and this has caused problems for me in the past. It is possible for high natural ability in D&D to affect skill rolls, but to nowhere near this extent, because whereas GURPS has no variable DC's to set (most rolls being "pass/fail", d20 systems do, and while natural talent gets you a long way at first level, at 10th level, it is worth far less than raw skill.