Gwendilyn, 7th level character (title change)

[Thanee]

...and create flanking bonuses.

Not your typical familiar, tho, unless polymorphed, because of reach issues.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I'm giving her back her flaws, and 2 feats. Let's see what results from this.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Lady Gwendilyn, Bladesinger of Varnaith

- Type: medium humanoid (elf, grey elf subtype)
- Description: 4 feet 10 inches, 70 pounds, frail beauty, long raven dark hair, grey eyes, milky skin
- Character level 9, swashbuckler 3rd / wizard 2nd / elven paragon 3rd / / bladesinger 1st, alignment neutral good
- Abilities: strength 13, dexterity 20, constitution 14, intelligence 22, wisdom 12, charisma 11
- Base saves: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +7
- Adjusted saves: Fort +3, Ref +13, Will +8 (enchantment/charm +4)
- Hit dice (hit points) : 10+2-1 + 2d10+4-2 + 2d4+4-2 + 3d8+6-3 + 1d8+4-1 (52 hit points)
- Armor class: 24, touch 16, flat footed 18 (+1 dodge where applicable, +1 bladesong where applicable)
- Initiative: +9 (+5 dex, improved initiative +4)
- Speed: 30 feet (6 squares), space/reach: 5 feet/5 feet
- BAB/grapple: +7/+2 and +7/+2
- Attacks: +2 keen rapier melee +15/+10 (1d6+10, 15-20/x2), +1 kukri melee +13/+8 (1d4+8, 18-20/x2), shortbow ranged +12/+7 (1d6, 20/x3, 60 ft), darts ranged +12/+7 (1d6+2, 20/x2, 20 ft)
- Special attacks: spells (arcane spell failure chance 15%)
- Special qualities: bladesong style (ex), weapon finesse (ex), grace +1 (ex), insightful strike (ex), spells, summon familiar, elfsight (ex), resist enchantments (ex), weapon focus (ex), ability boost (ex), elf traits (+2 int, -2 con, +2 racial to saves (enchantment/charm), racial immunity (sleep), low-light vision, racial martial weapon proficiencies (rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, composite shortbow), racial skill bonuses (+2 listen, +2 search, +2 spot), racial detection (secret doors), racial languages common and elven, favored class wizard)

- Primary skills: concentration +14 (12 ranks, con +2), hide +15 (10 ranks, dex +5), knowledge - arcana +16 (10 ranks, int +6), listen +13 (10 ranks, wis +1, racial +2), move silently +15 (10 ranks, dex +5), perform - dancer +2 (2 ranks, cha +0), perform - singer +2 (2 ranks, cha +0), spellcraft +16 (10 ranks, int +6), spot +15 (10 ranks, wis +1, racial +4)

- Untrained skills: balance +5 (0 ranks, dex +5), climb +1 (0 ranks, str +1), bluff +0 (0 ranks, cha +0), appraise +6 (0 ranks, int +6), craft +6 (0 ranks, int +6), diplomacy +0 (0 ranks, cha +0), disguise +0 (0 ranks, cha +0), escape artist +5 (0 ranks, dex +5), forgery +6 (0 ranks, int +6), gather information +0 (0 ranks, cha +0), heal +1 (0 ranks, wis +1), intimidate +0 (0 ranks, cha +0), use rope +5 (2 ranks, dex +5), perform - other +2 (0 ranks, cha +0), ride +5 (0 ranks, dex +5), search +10 (0 ranks, int +6, racial +4), sense motive +0 (0 ranks, wis +1), survival +1 (0 ranks, wis +1), swim +1 (0 ranks, str +1), tumble +5 (0 ranks, dex +5), use rope +5 (0 ranks, dex +5)

- Feats: combat expertise (1st), combat casting (1st), improved initiative (1st), power attack (3rd), dodge (6th), arcane strike (9th), weapon finesse - rapier (swashbuckler 1st), scribe scroll (wizard 1st), weapon focus - rapier (paragon 2nd)
- Flaws: frail, meager fortitude

- Spells per day:
0 level: 4 (4 base)
1st level: 5 (3 base, int +2)
2nd level: 4 (2 base, int +2)
3rd level: 2 (1 base, int +1)
- Spells memorized:
0 level: dancing lights, daze, ghost sound
1st level: mage armor, shield, shocking graspx3
2nd level: ghoul touch, invisibility, tasha's hideous laughter
3rd level: haste, hold person
- Spell casting level: 5th (2 levels wizard, 2 levels elven paragon, 1 level bladesinger)

- Spells known:
0 level: all PHB spells
1st level: mage armor, shield, shocking grasp
2nd level: ghoul touch, invisibility, tasha's hideous laughter
3rd level: haste, hold person

- Items: +3 mithral breastplate, +2 keen rapier, +2 ring of protection, +1 kukri, shortbow, 10 darts, spellbook, an appropriate number of magical items

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

It makes her more capable of damaging the opponent.
She can gain up to +7 damage for power attack, and up to +3 attack and +3d4 on all attacks during any round.
Thus, using insightful strike, power attack, and arcane strike, Gwendilyn could make a full attack with her rapier thus:

+8/+8 attack (+12/+7 (attack bonus) - +7/+2 (BAB for power attack) = +5/+5 (modified attack) + +3 (arcane strike) = +8/+8)

Primary hand attack damage: 1d6+7 (+6 int, +1 str) base damage, +7 power attack, +3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+7+7+3d4 (average 25 points)
Secondary hand attack damage: 1d6+7 (+6 int, +1 str) base damage, +2 power attack, +3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+7+2+3d4 (average 20 points)

So Gwendilyn can inflict 45 points of damage on average with a full round strike, employing power attack and arcane strike, and still receives a +8/+8 to her rolls.

EDIT:

This means the Haste spell gives Gwendilyn a crushing advantage, for it allows an extra attack.
This attack is at the top BAB, so it ends up having the same modified +8 attack bonus.
It also ends up dealing the same 25 points of average damage.

So a Hasted Gwendilyn inflicts 70 points of damage per round (or, 67 points using 2nd level spells for arcane strike), every round, for 5 rounds, at +8/+8/+8.

EDIT: Make that +9/+9/+9. I forgot the +1 for haste.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

So, I have a question:

If Gwendilyn is using power attack, arcane strike, and haste, and she somehow inflicted 3 criticals, is this what would happen? ...

Damage primary hand: 2d6 + str (normally +1, doubled now to +2) + int (normally +6, doubled now to +12) + power attack (normally +7, doubled now to +14) and arcane strike (3d4, not doubled) = 2d6+2+12+14+3d4 = average of 44.5 damage.

Damage secondary hand: 2d6 + str (normally +1, doubled now to +2) + int (normally +6, doubled now to +12) + power attack (normally +2, doubled now to +4) and arcane strike (3d4, not doubled) = 2d6+2+12+4+3d4 = average of 34.5 damage.

Damage extra attack (primary hand BAB) : 2d6 + str (normally +1, doubled now to +2) + int (normally +6, doubled now to +12) + power attack (normally +7, doubled now to +14) and arcane strike (3d4, not doubled) = 2d6+2+12+14+3d4 = average of 44.5 damage.

Thus, 133.5 damage?
Is this right?

If so, just might take a detour at 10th level to take a fighter level and take that Improved Critical feat.
Threat range for the rapier and kukri increase to 15-20, and threat range for the bow and darts increases to 19-20.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Let's get REALLY nasty.

Assume Gwendilyn has the feat two-weapon fighting.
She makes a Hasted full round attack, employing a rapier in her primary hand and her kukri in her secondary hand. She employs Power Attack and Arcane Strike.
And someone threw Bull's Strength (+2 str attack/damage) and Fox's Cunning (+2 damage for insightful strike) on her.

She gains two extra attacks (one for each hand) for the Haste.

Her attack bonus is: +5/+7/+5 and +5/+7/+5 (+9/+9/+9 modified downward by -4/-2/-4, modified to +7/+9/+7 for the +2 bull's strength.)

Her damage is:

Primary hand rapier 1st strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 32 points.
Primary hand rapier 2nd strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 2 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 27 points.
Primary hand rapier extra strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 32 points.

Secondary hand kukri 1st strike: 1d4 (2.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 31 points.
Secondary hand kukri 2nd strike: 1d4 (2.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 26 points.
Secondary hand kukri extra strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 31 points.

32 + 27 + 32 + 31 + 26 + 31 = 179 points of damage! Just for a mere two 2nd level spells and one 3rd level spell cast on her. I haven't even gotten into magical weapon damage or magical items.

Of course, if she inflicts criticals, then:

Rapier damage x 2 is 2d6 (7 average) + 6 str + 16 int + 14 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 53.5 points.

Kukri damage x 3 is 3d4 (7.5 average) + 9 str + 24 int + 21 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 72 points. (not bad, for a non-magical dagger-like weapon ...)

 

[Silveras]

It makes her more capable of damaging the opponent.
She can gain up to +7 damage for power attack, and up to +3 attack and +3d4 on all attacks during any round.

Not quite all attacks. Arcane Strike applies to a single weapon; in Gwendilyn's case, either the Rapier OR the Kukri, not both.

Note also that by wielding the Kukri, Gwendilyn loses the benefits of the Bladesong style (requires the second hand to be empty).

Thus, using insightful strike, power attack, and arcane strike, Gwendilyn could make a full attack with her rapier thus:

+8/+8 attack (+12/+7 (attack bonus) - +7/+2 (BAB for power attack) = +5/+5 (modified attack) + +3 (arcane strike) = +8/+8)

More like +12/+7 drops 5/5 to +7/+2, +3 for Arcane Strike = +10/+5.
Unless you meant to take the whole BAB of 7 off the attacks.. then it is +5/+0, +3 = +8/+3.

Primary hand attack damage: 1d6+7 (+6 int, +1 str) base damage, +7 power attack, +3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+7+7+3d4 (average 25 points)
Secondary hand attack damage: 1d6+7 (+6 int, +1 str) base damage, +2 power attack, +3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+7+2+3d4 (average 20 points)

Primary hand damage: 1d6+7 + 5 (Power Attack) + 3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+12 + 3d4 = 23 average (or 1d6+7+7(Power Attack) + 3d4, for 25).

Secondary hand damage: 1d4+7 +0 (Power Attack cannot add damage to Light weapons, but the penalty to attack is applied) + 0 arcane strike (applies to one weapon only) = 9.5 average.

So Gwendilyn can inflict 45 points of damage on average with a full round strike, employing power attack and arcane strike, and still receives a +8/+8 to her rolls.

EDIT:

This means the Haste spell gives Gwendilyn a crushing advantage, for it allows an extra attack.
This attack is at the top BAB, so it ends up having the same modified +8 attack bonus.
It also ends up dealing the same 25 points of average damage.

So a Hasted Gwendilyn inflicts 70 points of damage per round (or, 67 points using 2nd level spells for arcane strike), every round, for 5 rounds, at +8/+8/+8.

EDIT: Make that +9/+9/+9. I forgot the +1 for haste.

More like +11/+11/+6 (or +9/+9/+4).

If Gwendilyn is the one casting Haste, that is 2 less rounds she can do that kind of damage. First because she's using her action on 1 round to cast the Haste spell, and 2nd because now she has 1 less 3rd level spell to use to power her Arcane Strike.

And, 52 hit points with an AC of 15 is NOT going to last long against a character of comparable melee power. She will likely not LIVE to hit that often.

17 Str, 16 Con, 9th level Barbarian power attacking for 5 with a +2 Great Axe (appropriate for that level):
+9/+4 to hit, 1d12+18 damage per hit, critical 20/x3. Three regular hits or one Critical and Gwendilyn is likely dead. Raging: +11/+6 to hit, 1d12+22 damage per. S/HE has probably (9*6.5 + 27 =) 85.5 hp with 16 Con, 103.5 hp when Raging.

 

[Silveras]

Let's get REALLY nasty.

Assume Gwendilyn has the feat two-weapon fighting.
She makes a Hasted full round attack, employing a rapier in her primary hand and her kukri in her secondary hand. She employs Power Attack and Arcane Strike.
And someone threw Bull's Strength (+2 str attack/damage) and Fox's Cunning (+2 damage for insightful strike) on her.

She gains two extra attacks (one for each hand) for the Haste.

No, she gets "one extra attack with any weapon" for Haste, period (see the spell).

Two-Weapon fighting reduces the penalties for using two weapons.
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting lets you get a 2nd attack with your 2nd weapon.

Her attack bonus is: +5/+7/+5 and +5/+7/+5 (+9/+9/+9 modified downward by -4/-2/-4, modified to +7/+9/+7 for the +2 bull's strength.)

Her damage is:

Primary hand rapier 1st strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 32 points.
Primary hand rapier 2nd strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 2 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 27 points.
Primary hand rapier extra strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 32 points.

Secondary hand kukri 1st strike: 1d4 (2.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 31 points.
Secondary hand kukri 2nd strike: 1d4 (2.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 26 points.
Secondary hand kukri extra strike: 1d6 (3.5 average) + 3 str + 8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 31 points.

32 + 27 + 32 + 31 + 26 + 31 = 179 points of damage! Just for a mere two 2nd level spells and one 3rd level spell cast on her. I haven't even gotten into magical weapon damage or magical items.

Of course, if she inflicts criticals, then:

Rapier damage x 2 is 2d6 (7 average) + 6 str + 16 int + 14 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 53.5 points.

Kukri damage x 3 is 3d4 (7.5 average) + 9 str + 24 int + 21 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike (10.5 average) = 72 points. (not bad, for a non-magical dagger-like weapon ...)

Edena, what I see happening is that you still have some gaps in the basics of combat, and you're getting carried away by an incomlete reading of some things. By trying to build 7th+ level characters mixing 4 classes from 3 books, with another set of variants, it looks to me like you're trying to "run before you can walk".

My advice: Start with Gwendilyn at 1st level. Compare in a mock battle against a 1st level Kobold warrior or two. Work your way up to 7th, just like the character would have to in a game.

My advice 2: Heed Thanee. Forget Flaws, at least for now.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Does something Yours Truly has never done before, on any messageboard, since first coming to the Internet.
Uses the quote feature.

Not quite all attacks. Arcane Strike applies to a single weapon; in Gwendilyn's case, either the Rapier OR the Kukri, not both.

Well rats. You're quite right. The 3d4 applies only once. The +3 bonus would apply to all attacks, however - it is specific about that.

Note also that by wielding the Kukri, Gwendilyn loses the benefits of the Bladesong style (requires the second hand to be empty).

Yes, but in this case the Bladesong style only confers a +1 to AC. Gwendilyn is sacrificing defense for offense. She'd consider that an acceptable trade off, if finishing off a monster quickly was the priority.

More like +12/+7 drops 5/5 to +7/+2, +3 for Arcane Strike = +10/+5.
Unless you meant to take the whole BAB of 7 off the attacks.. then it is +5/+0, +3 = +8/+3.

I was using the whole of the +7/+2. I thought you could only take your BAB, meaning you could add +7 to your primary hand, and +2 to your off-hand, but not more than that.
Are you saying that, with power attack, you can (with BAB +7/+2) add +7/+7 to damage?

If so, Gwendilyn (her total attack bonus is +12/+7) would drop to an attack bonus of +5/+0. (-7/-7 for power attack.) Then, she'd add +3 for arcane strike, for a final bonus of +8/+3 (what you had.)
In THAT case, however, she would add +7 to all her attacks. I was calculating she could only add 2 to her off-hand attacks with power attack, because her off-hand BAB was +2. Was I wrong? (I hope I was wrong. )


Primary hand damage: 1d6+7 + 5 (Power Attack) + 3d4 arcane strike = 1d6+12 + 3d4 = 23 average (or 1d6+7+7(Power Attack) + 3d4, for 25).

Secondary hand damage: 1d4+7 +0 (Power Attack cannot add damage to Light weapons, but the penalty to attack is applied) + 0 arcane strike (applies to one weapon only) = 9.5 average.

If you cannot add power attack to light weapons, then Gwendilyn would use a rapier in her off-hand, accepting the -4/-4 penalty. She'd drop the rapier in her off-hand if she desired to employ the Bladesong Style.

Thus:

Primary hand rapier: 1d6 +1 str +6 int +7 power attack +3d4 arcane strike = 24 points of damage on average.
Secondary hand rapier: 1d6 +1 str +6 int +7 power attack (IF you can add the full +7 primary BAB to your off-hand strike ... can you?) = 18 points of damage on average.

A total of 40 points of damage.

More like +11/+11/+6 (or +9/+9/+4).

If Gwendilyn is the one casting Haste, that is 2 less rounds she can do that kind of damage. First because she's using her action on 1 round to cast the Haste spell, and 2nd because now she has 1 less 3rd level spell to use to power her Arcane Strike.

Gwendilyn has an attack bonus of +12/+7. Her BAB, however, is +7/+2.
If she casts Haste, she gains +1 to her attack bonus (all rolls.)
If she is carrying a rapier in both hands, she is -4/-4, so her attack bonus is modified to +9/+4. I'm guessing that is she drops all of her +7 BAB into damage, she drops another 7 to +2/-3 for her final attack bonus. (Is that right?)
Gwendilyn would not cast Haste in the middle of combat. She does not have the Song of Celerity yet!
Gwendilyn would cast Haste prior to combat. In combat, she'd dump it into Arcane Strike.

And, 52 hit points with an AC of 15 is NOT going to last long against a character of comparable melee power. She will likely not LIVE to hit that often.

True. Thus, Gwendilyn would use Arcane Strike for the very reason that she has to kill the monster before it kills her. The only way in toe to toe combat to do that is by massive damage.
Note I haven't given Gwendilyn any magical items. She is entitled to magical items for 9th level. What items would you suggest for her?

17 Str, 16 Con, 9th level Barbarian power attacking for 5 with a +2 Great Axe (appropriate for that level):
+9/+4 to hit, 1d12+18 damage per hit, critical 20/x3. Three regular hits or one Critical and Gwendilyn is likely dead. Raging: +11/+6 to hit, 1d12+22 damage per. S/HE has probably (9*6.5 + 27 =) 85.5 hp with 16 Con, 103.5 hp when Raging.

That's why the Barbarian is known as the Big, Bad Barbarian.
If Gwendilyn had 17 strength, her attack with the rapier would be 1d6 +3 (str) + 6 (int) + power attack and/or arcane strike.

You say Haste grants only one additional attack. I read that, but ...
Are you sure this applies when one is striking with a weapon in either hand?

If so, then (assumes Bull's Strength, Fox's Cunning, Haste)

Primary hand rapier 1st attack: 1d6 +3 str +8 int + 7 power attack + 3d4 arcane strike = 29 points average.
Primary hand rapier 2nd attack: 1d6 +3 str +8 int + 7 power attack = 22 points average.
Secondary hand rapier 1st attack: 1d6 +3 str +8 int + 7 power attack = 22 points average.
Extra attack rapier: 1d6 +3 str +8 int + 7 power attack = 22 points average.

That's still 95 points of damage. It's not 180 points, but 95 is a lot of damage for a 9th level character to hurl (without any magical items or magical weapons, even!)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You say Haste grants only one additional attack. I read that, but ...
Are you sure this applies when one is striking with a weapon in either hand?

I know I'm sure about this. Haste in 3.0 was great for dual-wielders, thri-kreen, etc and not so great for sword-and-board types. Now it's great for creatures with a single powerful attack, such as fiendish giant crocodiles.