D&D 5E GWM/SS alternative mechanics to the -5/+10 bonus?

[werecorpse]

I dislike raising the cap it encourages min maxing.

For GWM the cleave ability is almost good enough to be a feat without anything extra.

I don't see why it has to be restrained to heavy weapons I might change it to "weapon master", remove this limitation and maybe tweak the bonus action say allow you to move an extra 10' and have an attack (mini rampage)

As for sharp shooter there is almost nothing I like about it. The making cover and long range useless makes ranged combat too unrestricted IMO. So I feel no need to save it. If I did I might make it can ignore cover provided by combatants when firing into melee, double short range and some sort of bonus action.

 

[Horwath]

I dislike raising the cap it encourages min maxing.

For GWM the cleave ability is almost good enough to be a feat without anything extra.

I don't see why it has to be restrained to heavy weapons I might change it to "weapon master", remove this limitation and maybe tweak the bonus action say allow you to move an extra 10' and have an attack (mini rampage)

As for sharp shooter there is almost nothing I like about it. The making cover and long range useless makes ranged combat too unrestricted IMO. So I feel no need to save it. If I did I might make it can ignore cover provided by combatants when firing into melee, double short range and some sort of bonus action.

How about for sharpshooter;

double the short range of ranged weapons,
lower the cover category by one step; cover give +0 insted of +2 AC, improved cover gives +2 instead of +5 AC.
when you take an action to attack with ranged weapon you can make an extra attack with that weapon as bonus action.

 

[CapnZapp]

I have considered and tried the profiency solution.

On low levels it works (simply by virtue of effectively reining in the feature to -3/+6) and that's great (because it's at the very lowest levels a whopping +10 damage bonus feels especially incongrous; it's simply way bigger a bonus than ANYTHING else a character can produce at the lowest levels)

On higher levels you might was well not change a thing. Whether the feat gives you -4/+8 or -5/+10 or -6/+12 is inconsequential.

And there the problem becomes dire again, since now you have at least three, often four or even five attacks. The more attacks, the more sense it makes to optimize around this feat instead of anything else.

Which is a strong signal something went wrong in WotC design HQ back when the feat got this feature.

Look, if it were possible to say "no effect or bonus can modify your attack rolls when you use GWM" then the feat would be alright. Bless? Won't work at the same time as GWM. Advantage? Nope?

But you can't. (The notion is patently absurd as it would upturn the foundations of the game)

You can't prevent people from more or less erase the drawback of the feat feature. And as basically +10 the feat is whoppingly overpowered in the sense that there is no other option that comes even close: it becomes mandatory; not choosing it becomes a serious mistake.

At Strength 22 the feat would, as you say, still be very attractive. But it would be considerably less overpowered.

Isn't that really a beautiful compromise? I took the power away from the feat but you still desire to have it. That's, like, the best of two worlds!

 

[Zardnaar]

The feat is still desirable to have due o the cleave part of the feat.

 

[Horwath]

The feat is still desirable to have due o the cleave part of the feat.

but would you take it if it is just that? Over +2 str, or even +2 con if str is maxed?

 

[CapnZapp]

If your solution is to remove everything except the cleave part, I strongly suggest you also rename the feat to just "Cleave".

 

[Mouseferatu]

I haven't remotely thought this through; it's just an idea off the top of my head.

What about leaving the feat as it is, but only permitting the -5/+10 once per round? So even if you have multiple attacks, you can only use it on one of them? (Other benefits of the feat remain as normal.)

 

[Zardnaar]

I haven't remotely thought this through; it's just an idea off the top of my head.

What about leaving the feat as it is, but only permitting the -5/+10 once per round? So even if you have multiple attacks, you can only use it on one of them? (Other benefits of the feat remain as normal.)

I thought about this last night and that more or less fixes it IMHO. Its when you cheese it out with extra attacks (or SS+crossboow expert).

 

[jgsugden]

I would not allow a feat to raise the stat cap. It breaks too many tightly controlled mechanics.

If I were to revise this feat, it would be word for word the same EXCEPT you only get to use it on one attack per round. Other attacks are at normal bonuses/penalties.

 

[feartheminotaur]

On higher levels you might was well not change a thing. Whether the feat gives you -4/+8 or -5/+10 or -6/+12 is inconsequential. And there the problem becomes dire again, since now you have at least three, often four or even five attacks.

I'd disagree based on the high level games I've played. Personally, I haven't seen it cause any issue since it affects the most fungible variable at high levels: hit points. And it comes with a -5 penalty, which with bounded accuracy is still a big deal since it take resources to overcome. That, of course, is my take from the tables I've been at. YMMV.

The more attacks, the more sense it makes to optimize around this feat instead of anything else

This actually seems like your biggest concern - someone optimizing around this feat, or feeling they MUST take it - which is entirely fair. If "not choosing it becomes a serious mistake" is true for your table (which is all that matters - what's true at your table, not ours), then why offer the feat at all? If you don't want builds made around it, does changing it really do anything?

It seems to me that adjusting it might make it the exact opposite - a mistake to take at all - which is the same as just eliminating it entirely. Or, even worse, the change is the same - a feat that is a mistake not to take; a mandatory feat that builds are optimized around.

I'd look at a Strength 22 feat as the latter, from an optimization stand-point. No other way to push the cap up (minus magic items).