LostSoul
Adventurer
If that's the case, it's also a good thing to put into the system - not only because you know those changes will occur, but also because the players are aware of how they can manipulate those changes in their favour.
D&D 4E Hacking 4e - Do you hack? Why did you hack?
- Thread starter Viking Bastard
- Start date
If that's the case, it's also a good thing to put into the system - not only because you know those changes will occur, but also because the players are aware of how they can manipulate those changes in their favour.
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
I don't know if this counts as a hack or just play style thing, but recently I've been rethinking what levels imply in my pet setting. Essentially I want to make 11th and 21st name-levels in a sort of old-school sense.
While some characters might be perfectly content to dungeon dive for 30 levels, the default assumption will be lordship at about 11th level and dynasty-founder at 21st. Problem is, at least one of my players wouldn't be happy with the old school "Just rp it" approach to lordship, and I happen to agree. I want lordship to be a minigame like combat is a minigame. (I'd also like a mass combat minigame.)
So basically, I have a lot of work to do!
While some characters might be perfectly content to dungeon dive for 30 levels, the default assumption will be lordship at about 11th level and dynasty-founder at 21st. Problem is, at least one of my players wouldn't be happy with the old school "Just rp it" approach to lordship, and I happen to agree. I want lordship to be a minigame like combat is a minigame. (I'd also like a mass combat minigame.)
So basically, I have a lot of work to do!
Also, that would mean that characters that are meant to be fragile (lets say a Rogue) would get access to a 16 starting Con. I mean, if you do this to dissuade charoppers, I don't think it'll be effective. They will just find another way to make the character better.
A Dwarf Battlerager could, for example, just ignore Str and focus on Con and Wis. He gets better opportunity attacks, better Will defense, and doesn't lose on Fort because Con already covers that.
Thirdly, it would make higher level feats with stat requirements hard/impossible to get. For example, the epic-level Axe Mastery (because critting is fun) is permanently out of reach because of a 21 Str requirement, unless you start with a 19 or 20 after racial (in the linked system, you do not get stat bumps at levels 4 and 8). Which basically forces you to take a race that fits with your class and ability scores to match -- so it doesn't solve anything.
That is, if you still get the level 11 and 21 stat boosts (the link doesn't say anything about those). If you don't get those, it's entirely impossible.
@Vadriar I'm more concerned with people who'd rather play more flavorful things but feel trapped by the system. I.e. feeling like they have to take expertise instead of something they'd rather take. I feel this way when I play.
Charoppers will always find a way to game the system, and I can tell them "No" or "Dial it back."
Besides, as I said I've never been in a group that made it to Paragon, so I'm very unconcerned about Epic.
Charoppers will always find a way to game the system, and I can tell them "No" or "Dial it back."
Besides, as I said I've never been in a group that made it to Paragon, so I'm very unconcerned about Epic.
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D'karr
Adventurer
I wouldn't call these hacks so much but I've implemented them to have the game play more to the style that I prefer.
Healing
Potions of Healing and "Magical" healing are surgeless, no matter the source. Potions of Healing are uncommon, so the DM controls the flow of them to the PCs.
Multiclassing
Hybrid Multiclassing gives you proficiency to all armors for both classes.
Power Swap Multiclassing - only one feat is needed. All power swaps are automatic at the minimum level.
Expertise Feats
Expertise feats are automatic.
Something Cool Powers as described here
These are implemented for all characters.
Short Term and Long Term Wounds as described here
This I do consider a Hack, as I've implemented short term and long term injuries into my game for those occasions when it seems appropriate. These are used very sparingly.
Healing
Potions of Healing and "Magical" healing are surgeless, no matter the source. Potions of Healing are uncommon, so the DM controls the flow of them to the PCs.
Multiclassing
Hybrid Multiclassing gives you proficiency to all armors for both classes.
Power Swap Multiclassing - only one feat is needed. All power swaps are automatic at the minimum level.
Expertise Feats
Expertise feats are automatic.
Something Cool Powers as described here
These are implemented for all characters.
Short Term and Long Term Wounds as described here
This I do consider a Hack, as I've implemented short term and long term injuries into my game for those occasions when it seems appropriate. These are used very sparingly.
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LostSoul
Adventurer
I was looking at this. One element I wanted to tie into character development more than currently exists was the concept of Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies changing you. I broke down the different paths and destinies into the following categories:
Empire Building
Prophecy or Quest
Exploration
Discovery
Metamorphosis
Chosen or Oath
For example, Iron Vanguard would be Metamorphosis as you "become a vision of physical perfection".
Depending on your chosen Path or Destiny you'd have to do something special to hit level 11. I have the details of what you have to do worked out but that's specific to how my hack works and probably wouldn't apply to your game.
Hope that helps!
Fair point.
You could give an expertise feat for free. I hear lots of DMs do that, and it seems to work. As for race/class combinations that do not fit, you might also consider giving races a stat boost they normally wouldn't get, or refluff them. You could give the elven fighter a +2 str instead of his +2 dex.
The linked system just has me concerned in that it has far reaching implications all through the system. But, as you said, those implications will not come into play until higher levels, so for lower levels, it would be fine.
Saagael
First Post
I love these threads. I'll add my own to the list, and I apologize in advance if it ends up being quite long.
Tweaks
* Players can't take any expertise feats. They don't exist, and I adjust monsters appropriately.
* I use inherent bonuses, so magic items don't effect damage or attack
Extended Rests
[sblock]
Once characters leave the safety of a city or village, extended rests may only be taken once every 2 milestones. This is because outside of cities or villages, it is generally unsafe to rest for more than 8 hours at a time before moving on, and they are not weary enough to make back to back days of rest and relaxation worth it.
When they do take an extended rest, they do not automatically get all of their healing surges back; how many they get back depends on how safe and comfortable the area they are resting in is:
*When taking an extended rest in an environment where the natives are hostile (such as a dungeon, enemy city, or prison), characters gain surges up to a quarter their maximum surges per day.
* When taking an extended rest in an environment that is neither hostile nor friendly (such as in the wilderness), characters gain surges up to half their maximum surges per day.
* When taking an extended rest in a friendly environment (such as a friendly inn), characters gain all of their healing surges back.
[/sblock]
Lasting Wounds
[sblock]
Adventuring is a hard and dangerous line of work. Sometimes the combat goes your way, other times, it doesn't. When combat doesn't go your way, living to fight another day is not always guaranteed, and sometimes means a long-lasting wound or scar.
At the end of the combat, the player of a character who dropped to 0 hit points or fewer during the combat must roll a saving throw. For each time the character dropped to 0 hit points or fewer after the first, the player has a -1 penalty on this saving throw. If the player fails this saving throw, the character gains a long-lasting wound. This wound is determined randomly, and is influenced by the type of attack that knocked him or her to 0 hit points.
These wounds act like diseases, having an initial effect, and can improve or worsen with each extended rest taken based on a Heal or Endurance check. For example, being knocked unconscious by a thug's hammer might mean the character had an arm fractured and can't use it until his condition improves. Or if knocked down by a fire spell, that character might be vulnerable to fire for a while.
[/sblock]
Presitge Points
[sblock]
I keep all of my campaign info on an ObsidianPortal wiki, and give out these prestige points for help outside of the game. This can include posting helpful comments on discussion threads, helping me update wiki pages, sending me new characters sheets when the players level up, writing up a detailed background for a character, etc.
These points can be spent out of game on character augments. For example, 8 points might get you a free feat, while 5 points can let you bump an ability score of 11, to 12. Mostly, this is my attempt at getting the players to shoulder some of the DM burden of maintaining a wiki so I don't burnout.
[/sblock]
Knacks
[sblock]
I love the ritual system, but players, in my experience, rarely utilize it beyond Enchanting magic items. So I gutted it. No more ritual system. In its place, I added a "knacks" feature.
All characters start out with 1 or 2 knacks. These are things the character is good at, but is more specialized than a skill. For example, a Wizard might be particularly good with portals, and brewing potions, so he'd have a "Use Portal" and "Brew Potion" knack. These allow him to do things involving the subject of his expertise. Use Portal might, depending on situation, allow the wizard to create, destroy, alter, analyze, or detect portals. Cost, duration and casting time of the ritual are determined by the situation and specific use (usually by me, the DM, telling the player what it'll cost).
There's no list of knacks, its just whatever the players think their character would be good at. First aid, forgery, metalsmithing, animal tracking, commanding troops, summoning demons, crafting golems, whatever. The players can attempt to utilize knacks any way they want, and can gain more as they level by spending some time and gold getting training.
[/sblock]
Crafting
[sblock]
Since there's no Enchant magic items ritual, weapon and armor crafting is left to this system. Crafting mastercraft and magic items requires specific components depending on the item being made. Components can be bought, found or gathered from monsters, along with some gold. For example, in order to craft Dragonscale armor, one would need to collect the hide of a dragon. A Safewing amulet might require the wing of a pixie or feather of a harpie. A horned helmet might require the horn of a minotaur.
What components are required to craft items is not set in stone, but rather is something to be discovered with creativity and ingenuity. When asked "what do I need to make item X?" I answer with "I don't know, what do you think you'd need." If they're clever, I let it work. The more clever they are, the lower the additional gold they have to spend.
[/sblock]
Adjusted skills
[sblock]
Skills no longer use specific ability scores. Instead, what a character is doing determines what skill is used, and how the character is doing it determines what ability score is added.
For example, lets say a Joe the Wizard is trying to convince a king that if he doesn't act, bad stuff will happen. Lets say that this character is being very logical and offering up sound options with good reasoning. This would be a diplomacy check, but instead of using Charisma, Joe the Wizard would use Intelligence, since he's being logical about it.
Or maybe Sam the Barbarian is trying to pick a lock. Well, his version of picking a lock equates to "hit it until it opens", so he'd use Thievery, but replace Dexterity with Strength.
The idea behind this is to make players think about what their character is good at, and how to use their strengths, rather than shoehorn inappropriate skills into every situation.
[/sblock]
That's pretty much it. Now to go back and read the rests of the posts and steal what ideas I can.
Tweaks
* Players can't take any expertise feats. They don't exist, and I adjust monsters appropriately.
* I use inherent bonuses, so magic items don't effect damage or attack
Extended Rests
[sblock]
Once characters leave the safety of a city or village, extended rests may only be taken once every 2 milestones. This is because outside of cities or villages, it is generally unsafe to rest for more than 8 hours at a time before moving on, and they are not weary enough to make back to back days of rest and relaxation worth it.
When they do take an extended rest, they do not automatically get all of their healing surges back; how many they get back depends on how safe and comfortable the area they are resting in is:
*When taking an extended rest in an environment where the natives are hostile (such as a dungeon, enemy city, or prison), characters gain surges up to a quarter their maximum surges per day.
* When taking an extended rest in an environment that is neither hostile nor friendly (such as in the wilderness), characters gain surges up to half their maximum surges per day.
* When taking an extended rest in a friendly environment (such as a friendly inn), characters gain all of their healing surges back.
[/sblock]
Lasting Wounds
[sblock]
Adventuring is a hard and dangerous line of work. Sometimes the combat goes your way, other times, it doesn't. When combat doesn't go your way, living to fight another day is not always guaranteed, and sometimes means a long-lasting wound or scar.
At the end of the combat, the player of a character who dropped to 0 hit points or fewer during the combat must roll a saving throw. For each time the character dropped to 0 hit points or fewer after the first, the player has a -1 penalty on this saving throw. If the player fails this saving throw, the character gains a long-lasting wound. This wound is determined randomly, and is influenced by the type of attack that knocked him or her to 0 hit points.
These wounds act like diseases, having an initial effect, and can improve or worsen with each extended rest taken based on a Heal or Endurance check. For example, being knocked unconscious by a thug's hammer might mean the character had an arm fractured and can't use it until his condition improves. Or if knocked down by a fire spell, that character might be vulnerable to fire for a while.
[/sblock]
Presitge Points
[sblock]
I keep all of my campaign info on an ObsidianPortal wiki, and give out these prestige points for help outside of the game. This can include posting helpful comments on discussion threads, helping me update wiki pages, sending me new characters sheets when the players level up, writing up a detailed background for a character, etc.
These points can be spent out of game on character augments. For example, 8 points might get you a free feat, while 5 points can let you bump an ability score of 11, to 12. Mostly, this is my attempt at getting the players to shoulder some of the DM burden of maintaining a wiki so I don't burnout.
[/sblock]
Knacks
[sblock]
I love the ritual system, but players, in my experience, rarely utilize it beyond Enchanting magic items. So I gutted it. No more ritual system. In its place, I added a "knacks" feature.
All characters start out with 1 or 2 knacks. These are things the character is good at, but is more specialized than a skill. For example, a Wizard might be particularly good with portals, and brewing potions, so he'd have a "Use Portal" and "Brew Potion" knack. These allow him to do things involving the subject of his expertise. Use Portal might, depending on situation, allow the wizard to create, destroy, alter, analyze, or detect portals. Cost, duration and casting time of the ritual are determined by the situation and specific use (usually by me, the DM, telling the player what it'll cost).
There's no list of knacks, its just whatever the players think their character would be good at. First aid, forgery, metalsmithing, animal tracking, commanding troops, summoning demons, crafting golems, whatever. The players can attempt to utilize knacks any way they want, and can gain more as they level by spending some time and gold getting training.
[/sblock]
Crafting
[sblock]
Since there's no Enchant magic items ritual, weapon and armor crafting is left to this system. Crafting mastercraft and magic items requires specific components depending on the item being made. Components can be bought, found or gathered from monsters, along with some gold. For example, in order to craft Dragonscale armor, one would need to collect the hide of a dragon. A Safewing amulet might require the wing of a pixie or feather of a harpie. A horned helmet might require the horn of a minotaur.
What components are required to craft items is not set in stone, but rather is something to be discovered with creativity and ingenuity. When asked "what do I need to make item X?" I answer with "I don't know, what do you think you'd need." If they're clever, I let it work. The more clever they are, the lower the additional gold they have to spend.
[/sblock]
Adjusted skills
[sblock]
Skills no longer use specific ability scores. Instead, what a character is doing determines what skill is used, and how the character is doing it determines what ability score is added.
For example, lets say a Joe the Wizard is trying to convince a king that if he doesn't act, bad stuff will happen. Lets say that this character is being very logical and offering up sound options with good reasoning. This would be a diplomacy check, but instead of using Charisma, Joe the Wizard would use Intelligence, since he's being logical about it.
Or maybe Sam the Barbarian is trying to pick a lock. Well, his version of picking a lock equates to "hit it until it opens", so he'd use Thievery, but replace Dexterity with Strength.
The idea behind this is to make players think about what their character is good at, and how to use their strengths, rather than shoehorn inappropriate skills into every situation.
[/sblock]
That's pretty much it. Now to go back and read the rests of the posts and steal what ideas I can.
Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
Hm, so what would I have to do to become an Iron Vanguard? Find and read the legendary Tome of Gainful Exercise?
Also, I second Rechan's question.
