D&D 4E Hacking 4e - Do you hack? Why did you hack?

[Saagael]

Hm, so what would I have to do to become an Iron Vanguard? Find and read the legendary Tome of Gainful Exercise?

Also, I second Rechan's question.

Perhaps you hunt down someone of that same paragon path to train you. Or join a guild dedicated to whatever Path you're taking. Or find an item owned by a previous Daggermaster/Iron Vanguard/Whatever.

 

[LostSoul]

Hm, so what would I have to do to become an Iron Vanguard? Find and read the legendary Tome of Gainful Exercise?

Also, I second Rechan's question.

Yeah, something like that. In my hack you'd say that your Goal is to recover the Tome of Gainful Exercise (which has to be a level 14+ magic item) and tie that Goal to Iron Vanguard. You can switch the Goal if you want, but, if you change your Goal after 4th level, you can never take the Paragon Path you associated with that Goal.

The Goal works as a Quest that's always on; if you meet certain criteria related to your Goal you get XP. How much XP depends on what you're doing.

You also have to complete mini-goals along the way in order to level up to 4th and 7th (the new "Tier Bands"); in this case it'd either be discovering where the Tome is (4th) and exploring the hex in which it lies (7th), or spending a set amount of GP or ritual components (7000 for 4th, 16250 for 7th) as you train or transform yourself into a vision of physical perfection. In either case you can't hit 11th level - and start taking the Paragon Path - until you've found the Tome and completed the Goal.

All this Goal-related stuff is tied to how the setting is created and other features of the hack, like Settlements and how they grow, what's on the hex map, NPCs and their organizations, and things like that.

The point of this is to get the player to determine what they want to do while playing the game - what kind of adventures they want to go on - and have that be reflected in changes on the character sheet. The player determines what sorts of obstacles they want to face and how they want their PC to change once those obstacles are overcome.

(Hitting 11th level also changes you from a "normal" person into something much more. The sorts of things you can try to do are expanded into the realm of the near-impossible. At 21st level, the impossible becomes possible. Or that's the goal!)

This is kind of new and I haven't tested it much. I hope to work out any kinks in my new campaign. One big issue that I can see is that the players might have different goals which lead them in different directions, causing problems at the table. It might not be a big issue, but it could be, and I'm not sure how to deal with that.

However, what about vanilla "Just be better at ass kicking" Paragon Paths, like say, the Daggermaster?

Normally you can fit the PP into one of the categories when you look at the fluff text. Daggermaster says:

You and your dagger become one as you master the intricacies of battling with the blade. You are a master of the dagger, able to employ your weapon in ways that no lesser rogue can match.​

I'd talk it over with the player and ask them which category they feel fits best based on how they want the PC to reach that point - what they want the PC to do in order to get there. In other words, what they want to do while they are playing the game. They might want to seek out a legendary master of the dagger, or they might want to train a lot. Either way.

I'd be cool with putting that either in Metamorphosis (training with the blade) or Discovery (finding an NPC who is a Daggermaster, discovering an ancient book that explains dagger tricks, or something similar). I originally wrote those categories for Epic Destinies, and I haven't gone through the Paragon Paths to see if they still work. I might have to make changes for that.

 

[Rechan]

The point of this is to get the player to determine what they want to do while playing the game - what kind of adventures they want to go on - and have that be reflected in changes on the character sheet. The player determines what sorts of obstacles they want to face and how they want their PC to change once those obstacles are overcome.

What do you do about the unmotivated player? The casual "I just want to show up and roll dice and kill some orcs" players?

Because let me tell you. I love having motivated players who want to accomplish certain things, but getting D&D players to set goals and pursue them is hard as hell.

 

[LostSoul]

Unmotivated players tend to end up as sidekicks - tagging along with the leaders of the party. If everyone's like this, or they're a drag on the other players, then the game won't work.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Yeah, something like that. In my hack you'd say that your Goal is to recover the Tome of Gainful Exercise (which has to be a level 14+ magic item) and tie that Goal to Iron Vanguard. You can switch the Goal if you want, but, if you change your Goal after 4th level, you can never take the Paragon Path you associated with that Goal.

Oh I see, it's collaborative. I like that!

One of my favorite character goals is simply "Become immortal." As in, can't die of old age. Unfortunately its viability tends to vary widely by DM. Anyway, I guess that would be either metamophasis, discovery or maybe quest.

What do you do about the unmotivated player? The casual "I just want to show up and roll dice and kill some orcs" players?

I have one of those. My guess is that he'd pick the motivation category which he perceives as most likely result in a lot of combat. So...metamorphasis or quest probably.

 

[Argyle King]

I'm not sure these changes are enough to be considered a 'hack.' These are houserules I've made though.

- I rewrote the skill challenge DC table

Why? The math from DMG1 sometimes doesn't work right; the math from DMG2 is so laughably easy that it's often just faster to tell the player they succeeded instead of bothering with rolling.

- I handle solos and elites far differently. Without getting into too much detail, I'll say that elites are regular monsters (normal HP,) but with the benefits of being an elite (bonus to saves, better defenses - sometimes, more powers than the typical monster, and an action point.) Solos essentially have elite HP, but with solo benefits (bigger bonus to saves; multiple action points; more interrupt powers and abilities to deal with multiple foes.)

Why? I was tired of the grind which most fights evolved into when using the normal setup. I also wanted to use more creatures in an encounter during a boss fight sometimes; not always need to scale back.

This is still something I'm experimenting with. Thus far, it seems to work well.

- I use a different XP budget chart.

Why? This ties into what I previously mentioned about elites and solos. I'm away from my notes at the moment, but I believe I have it worked out that elites are worth 1.5 regular monsters, and solos are worth 2 elites (so 3 normal monsters.) Depending on level, it can take anywhere from 4-8 minions to equal one regular monster.

This is still a work in progress, but it also seems to work well so far.



There are changes I'd like to make beyond that; some of them quite severe, but -at that point- I usually find it easier to use one of the toolkit systems I own and just build the game I want with a system which assumes I'm doing that anyway.

 

[Argyle King]

I was looking at this. One element I wanted to tie into character development more than currently exists was the concept of Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies changing you. I broke down the different paths and destinies into the following categories:

Empire Building
Prophecy or Quest
Exploration
Discovery
Metamorphosis
Chosen or Oath

For example, Iron Vanguard would be Metamorphosis as you "become a vision of physical perfection".

Depending on your chosen Path or Destiny you'd have to do something special to hit level 11. I have the details of what you have to do worked out but that's specific to how my hack works and probably wouldn't apply to your game.

Hope that helps!

I think this is pretty cool, but I'm curious as to how it works if a character wants to Paragon Multiclass?

 

[Pour]

I've mostly house ruled, really, but there are a couple of inventions I've added to my game. One that sticks out in my head right now is the Paragon Mantle.

Paragon Mantles
Here's a 'rules text' so to speak:

When characters reach Paragon Tier, more of the world opens up to them. Their choices affect the world on a national, global and perhaps even cosmic scale. They now have a history in the setting, and possess more responsibility, influence, and certainly more power.

It may come to pass that Paragon characters become authorities in the world, affecting people, places and the campaign plots in much larger ways than ever before. They might rise to the head of an organization, inherit some ancient mission, cultivate a following or be designated for some great honor or curse by a higher power. These are represented in mechanical terms as Paragon Mantles.

While Heroic Themes are chosen at the onset of creation, Paragon Mantles are given or earned during the course of Paragon Tier. Players may or may not have a great deal to do with gaining their mantle, depending on the DM, but they should reflect the general direction intended for characters or otherwise the consequence of some accepted risk. Some characters might have been striving to attain a certain mantle since Heroic, while others might have literally stumbled into one.

Characters can only have one mantle at a time. These mantles do not have to be permanent, but shuffling mantles should not be a common occurrence. Still, it is possible for characters to lose their authority, inheritance or honored gifts (or curses) and, down the road, achieve another mantle.

Some characters might achieve their mantle at 11th level, while others might not come into their own until much later in Paragon Tier. This is partially dependent on the current plots, the actions of the player and the timing of the DM. Whenever a mantle is attained, the characters retroactively assume all traits and powers they meet the prerequisites for.

Paragon Mantles are defined by the added class role/s they offer characters, the power source/s they share the closest affinity, and the patron or organization who bestowed them. Mantles usually consist of a granted power, mantle traits and mantle powers. Traits are usually given at 11th, 15th and 19th. Powers are usually given at 13th and 17th. These traits and powers are in addition to any the characters already have and do not require any replacing.

Certain artifacts require a character possess a particular mantle.

Maintaining a Paragon Mantle into the Epic Tier also allows characters the chance to customize their Epic Destinies in accordance with the mantle’s role and power source. At 23rd, 25th, 27th and 29th level, characters may choose to replace one of their destiny’s features or powers with that of another Epic Destiny that shares the role and power source of their Paragon Mantle. They must have access to the feature or power being replaced before they can swap.

These mantles are powerful by design, and are not balanced for an average game. However, I tend to play boss fights and world-hinging challenges very difficult, so the mantles help players both deal with the difficulties and not feel cheated if they fail in them. Mantles lean toward certain 'battlefield' spanning powers, and add things like attracting followers to help establish a witch's coven or, in the case of the Darklord Mantle, domain-shaping abilities. They're also very world-specific and help immersion immensely.

Examples:
Last Archdruid
Prophet of Hecate
Archwarden of Destruction
Darklord of the Vale
Starry Maiden (Exarch of Kalinda)
King of Summer (Fey Liege)

 

[Tony Vargas]

I know some posters here, like [MENTION=386]LostSoul[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10503]Oldtimer[/MENTION], play their own heavily homebrewed versions of 4e, and I'm wondering who else does, what the main changes are and why.

I've always been an inveterate rules-tinkerer. When I ran AD&D (1e and 2e) I had a 3"-think D-ring binder full of variants ('house rules') - everyone had some, since the rules didn't hang together too well on their own, but I tended to go overboard. Even with 3.0 and 3.5, which were basically functional 'RAW,' I'd make significant changes to customize the game to a given campaign.

With 4e, I did try to home-brew some classes, but gave up on it as not worth the effort - creating a class is just a very design-intensive proposition because so much effort was put into balancing classes and making them effective in their roles and in and out of combat, creating a new one required similarly herculean efforts. The few house rules I do use are either interpretations that I prefer to the official call (like SA and other +dice of damage not being maximized on a crit), or just unwinding of Essentials nonsense.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

- I rewrote the skill challenge DC table

Why? The math from DMG1 sometimes doesn't work right; the math from DMG2 is so laughably easy that it's often just faster to tell the player they succeeded instead of bothering with rolling.

The Essentials errata fixed the difficulty chart, IMHO, in a way that I'm quite happy with it. You may want to look at it - its in the errata documents, the Rules Compendium, the DM screen and (I think) the DM guide.

That said, making your own table is cool too.