Haggling Minor Skill Challenge Mechanic

[Davedamon]

Having just uploaded my experimental Hot Pursuit Rules here, it occured to me to upload my Haggling minor skill challenge rules that I've been using for a while.

The main reason for coming up with these rules was that haggling in my old group generally consisted of a player repeatedly asking for a price he wanted over and over again, and if he didn't get it, he'd just walk off. So I decided to come up with solid rules for haggling that introduce skills, making it a more balanced process.

Feedback and suggestions are very welcome

 

[Quickleaf]

Mechanically this seems sound, but this messes with 4e's treasure per level. For example in your example it seems like the PC ends up getting a 3rd level axe (680 gp) for the less than the price of a 1st level item (360 gp). If this sort of barter happened consistently your PC would be swimming in gold and your merchants would loathe doing business with them (as they would be selling at or below cost). The only way I see this working economically is if merchants routinely mark up magic items when dealing with the party by an order of at least 300%.

I don't care for it story-wise cause it's just numbers being thrown back and forth; as a DM this is exactly the sort of situation I'd want resolved with a single check so the game could move on to the good stuff. Back when I was writing Tales of the Caliphate Nights (Paradigm Concepts) for the True20 system, I had an idea for a "Bargaining in the Souk" mini-game. While some of those ideas made it into the book I didn't have time to flesh them out fully. The premise was that certain clever arguments and catch-phrases/quips would be exchanged over a 3-round segment between buyer and merchant. If the buyer played their cards right (and thus could literally be cards), they could end up with not just a discount but access to special gear, an offer to craft a unique item, a bonus little gift, etc. But if the deal didn't go in their favor they could end up with a shoddy/stolen item or a lame pack mule, disgruntling a merchants guild, a delay in procurement or the item, refusal of future business or markup, etc. It was meant to be a very lighthearted game.

If your player refuses to compromise, just don't make the price they want available. Instead note that item in their treasure wish list and introduce it via a treasure parcel.

 

[Kzach]

The main reason for coming up with these rules was that haggling in my old group generally consisted of a player repeatedly asking for a price he wanted over and over again, and if he didn't get it, he'd just walk off. So I decided to come up with solid rules for haggling that introduce skills, making it a more balanced process.

I have a friend like that who does it both in and out of games. It's so freaking irritating. He absolutely won't, at all, ever, buy anything full price, from anywhere. This would be great if it actually saved him (or me) money, but the end effect is that he walks away not buying anything (even if he really wanted or needed it) and so doesn't benefit from having the thing in the first place, which I consider a net loss, not a gain.

/rant

Anyway, nice rules. I might up the DC's on this just to frustrate my friend's annoying insistence on haggling over everything (yes, he will haggle coppers on an ale purchase) and bitching at me when he doesn't get a discount. This way I can point to his failure (he never invests in 'roleplaying' skills like diplomacy) to succeed on a skill challenge

 

[corwyn77]

I have a friend like that who does it both in and out of games. It's so freaking irritating. He absolutely won't, at all, ever, buy anything full price, from anywhere. This would be great if it actually saved him (or me) money, but the end effect is that he walks away not buying anything (even if he really wanted or needed it) and so doesn't benefit from having the thing in the first place, which I consider a net loss, not a gain.

/rant

Must make it tricky to buy groceries, not to mention gas or, well, anything. I assume he's in some situation which allows this as possible (living at home, sponging off roommates for food, rides, etc.). I think he'll be in for a bit of a shock when confronted with the real world and either cave or starve.

Anyway, nice rules. I might up the DC's on this just to frustrate my friend's annoying insistence on haggling over everything (yes, he will haggle coppers on an ale purchase) and bitching at me when he doesn't get a discount. This way I can point to his failure (he never invests in 'roleplaying' skills like diplomacy) to succeed on a skill challenge

Yeah, it looks like a decent start, but as is, looks highly abusable. It's quite common, IME to have a character with Bluff/Diplomacy 10 at second level with the balance of characters at 1 for a starting DC of 13. My dodger rogue would have had merchants weeping using this system, regularly buying at 25% and selling at 45% (as opposed to 20%).

As for your 'friend', I don't know that I'd be comfortable with that level of enabling. I'm not a big fan of punishing annoying behaviour by indulging it. However, maybe it will convince him to buy some roleplaying skills. It certainly looks worth a feat.

I had a player in a GURPS game like that. He was largely a non-combatant though so I generally allowed it on big stuff since he took up so little time in combat and it helped him contribute, at least indirectly, by getting cheap gear for his buddies.

 

[Kzach]

Must make it tricky to buy groceries, not to mention gas or, well, anything. I assume he's in some situation which allows this as possible (living at home, sponging off roommates for food, rides, etc.). I think he'll be in for a bit of a shock when confronted with the real world and either cave or starve.

Very perceptive of you. He's 39 and still living at home with his mom who does his laundry, cooking, cleans his room...

Another option I've considered is insisting he take the Guttersnipe Theme for every character

 

[wcpfish]

I handled this very issue in my well-received DM's resource: City Slices I: Marketplace Fun (available here). I include a sample PDF attached that contains the entire skill challenge. If you enjoy this please pick up the entire book which features more skill challenges, events, npcs, and equipment for a living, breathing 4E city!

View attachment Haggling the Haggler.pdf

Thanks and hope you find this useful!
William C. Pfaff
President of Escape Velocity Gaming

 

[S'mon]

I have a simple haggle system for magic items that works very well - if the seller originally paid 100% (eg wizard makes item with enchant-item) then the item price is 150% list price, minus the result of PC's Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate roll, to a minimum of 110% - the seller has to make a profit, after all. If the seller paid only 20% then I'd start lower, possibly as low as 110% for common, easily available items, and go down as low as 50%.