Haggling: rules, guidelines, suggestions?

[SteveC]

So my new 4E campaign is underway, and I'm still in the process of figuring out all of the nuances of the new system. One part of it seems to be the rule of 20% where you find something and then sell it to a merchant or other NPC for 20% of the core price.

The PHB mentions using Diplomacy for haggling, but provides no guidelines for how to do it (other than make a diplomacy check to do it!)

From looking at the DMG, I'm seeing a couple of comments that you can do it, but no actual rules. Now this would certainly not be the first time that I have missed something in the 4E rules ... so if I'm missing it, what do you think would be fair?

My players want to use their Diplomacy to get a better deal, so what do you think? Am I missing (yet another) rule?

--Steve

 

[DLichen]

It's fine assuming that you as a DM keep the power balance between the PCs and the monsters they encounter equal.

Simply reducing the amount of gold they find in treasure hordes and giving them more redundant magic weapons would work.

It also depends on who they are selling to. If you introduce a wealthy merchant who might deal with enchanted arms and can easily find buyers, let them haggle up to 60% for example. The local smithy would pay 25% since he simply can't afford to buy magical arms when most of the populace can't afford it.

Diplomacy vs. Insight opposed

For every 5 points they get above in the opposed roll, increase the sell price by 5% up to the limit the guy can realistically pay.

 

[frankthedm]

Quick and dirty and no rolling: Each +5 to diplomacy checks you have increases your selling rate by 5%. If you have +30 to diplomacy checks, you sell items for 50% rather than 20%.

 

[Starfox]

You really want to role-play the Home Shopping Network?

Just say how much things sell for, then move on. Dice rolls here is a waste of time better spent.

 

[DLichen]

If his players would have fun doing it, then they should do it.

Fun is subjective.

 

[James McMurray]

DC 15 + item level (or maybe 20 + 1/2 level). Sale price modified by 1% per point of success or failure.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Skill Challenge, all the way. Diplomacy if you want to be nice to the seller/buyer, Bluff if you want to lie to the seller/buyer, History to get some info about the product, and so on. I would only use a Skill Challenege for Haggling if it was important to the game (like haggling to get an artifact).

 

[Zsig]

I'd go with the table presented on the DMG page 42. "Difficulty Class and Damage by Level".

Then, I'd set the difficulties according to the attitude of the merchant as:
Easy = Friendly
Moderate = Indifferent
Hard = Unfriendly

Ask for a Diplomacy roll. For each point by which the character fail/succeed the check increase/decrease it's cost by 1%.

Which, in the end is almost the same as James McMurray proposed above.

 

[SteveC]

You really want to role-play the Home Shopping Network?

Just say how much things sell for, then move on. Dice rolls here is a waste of time better spent.

Starfox,
I don't mean to pick on you here, but this is exactly the sort of response that people who don't like 4E are pointing to when they say "4E is all about combat and has nothing to do with roleplaying."

My players most definitely do not want to roleplay the home shopping network. They have trained the diplomacy skill, and one of the things that it says you can do with it is haggle. There just aren't any rules for how to do that in the game (at least apparently that's the case, since I suspect someone would have pointed them out by now if they were in there).

Of course I can handle the haggling by fiat, but then it makes the players investment in the skill a bit less worthwhile, and makes my players a little more frustrated that they can't do something the rules tell them they can.

Thanks to everyone for ideas, by the way ... I'm most likely going to use a combo of FranktheDM's idea with the standard difficulty chart, because I'm not interested in making this into something as involved as a Skill Challenge.

--Steve

 

[Danceofmasks]

Grog say you pay 300 gold for axe! Or Grog make you eat axe!