D&D 5E (2014) Hags - Something doesn't add up.

[pukunui]

My issue is that the bestow curse spell has a range of touch, which makes it much less usable in combat anyway.

 

[jgsugden]

Is this a trick question?

I think the point that we all get is that Hags, in lore, are only sometimes in a coven, but almost always are portrayed with the capability to perform curses and dark magics.

 

[Don Durito]

The old Thieves World D20 book had a great system for curses.

One of the key points it was much easier to curse someone if they are in some way deserving of it.

So I would have it where the hags try to learn things about the PCs the PCs don't want to tell anyone (perhaps by reading their dreams) and cursing or threatening to curse them in response.

This feels fairer because it's a response to something bad the PC actually did (even if the hag doesn't really care).

Of course that bad thing could well be something the hag tries to trick or tempt them into doing.

 

[TheSword]

Hags have knowledge. Amazing knowledge of some pretty evil things. Look at their uses in published adventures. It’s rarely doing things that require their spell like abilities.

 

[Kodiak3D]

I think the point that we all get is that Hags, in lore, are only sometimes in a coven, but almost always are portrayed with the capability to perform curses and dark magics.

Bingo.

 

[Voadam]

The old Thieves World D20 book had a great system for curses.

One of the key points it was much easier to curse someone if they are in some way deserving of it.

So I would have it where the hags try to learn things about the PCs the PCs don't want to tell anyone (perhaps by reading their dreams) and cursing or threatening to curse them in response.

This feels fairer because it's a response to something bad the PC actually did (even if the hag doesn't really care).

Of course that bad thing could well be something the hag tries to trick or tempt them into doing.

Ravenloft through its editions had a general system as well for curses that was more based on narrative than power mechanics. So a zero level servant can curse a high level character. Even better for hags it was based on feeling angry and feeling wronged so it could hit innocents just because the curser was bitter.

 

[Weiley31]

My issue is that the bestow curse spell has a range of touch, which makes it much less usable in combat anyway.

Ah but you see that's cuz that is the limitation for a normal pc. A Hag, especially a BBEG type style, don't have to play that rule. Especially if that kindly old lady invited the party in for tea, which she *only brings out for special occasions.

 

[Faolyn]

The way I see it, the stuff in the statblock is combat-necessary stuff. They can curse people and bight crops and turn into animals and the like, but they have to do so through rituals that take minutes, hours, or even days. Completely useless outside of combat.

 

[Iry]

Monsters have more abilities than their statblock. Hags are a prime example.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think this might be better phrased as a complaint against 5e monster design across the board, rather than specifically hags. Against seasoned adventurers, 5e monsters go down fast, and they lack the bite of AD&D's monsters (all for good reasons unearthed during playtesting).

IME that's due to several factors:

1) Far too many DMs assume 'CR' = reasonable challenge for a party of 5 PCs of the same level. That's simply not the case.

Example: A single CR 5 creature for 5 x 5th level PCs comes in at 1, 800 XP which only just breaks into an 'Easy' encounter. Those same PCs have a 'Hard' encounter bracket of between 3, 750 - 5, 499 XP, meaning a single CR 9 creature (5, 000 XP) is actually a reasonable challenge for 5 x 5th level PCs (without even breaking into Deadly).

2) The above assumption is then exacerbated by DMs who fail to police the Adventuring day, which leads to nova strikes and thus them trivialising encounters (among other things).

Example: The above party of 5 x 5th level PCs have an Adventuring day XP budget of 3, 500 XP each - for a total of 17, 500 XP. Meaning they could have 3 separate encounters, with 3 different CR 9 creatures during the same Adventuring day, and still fall well short of their expected daily encounter budget.

3) DMs often don't really get how to build a 5E encounter. Lots of solo monsters (who are not legendary) and infrequent use of lower CR 'mooks' is a common fault I see.

When designing your adventuring day, you should mix it up. Have a Solo (legendary) creature with a high CR, a few encounters with a 'Boss' monster or two supported by half a dozen or more lower CR minions/ mooks, and a few encounters with 2-4 mid CR monsters.

4) Magic items: Magic items add a LOT of oomph to a 5E party, and many DMs fail to take them into account when assessing their party strength. As a general rule of thumb, an attuned item or magical armour, wand, weapon or shield, is equal to around a whole levels worth of advancement/ power in 5E.

If you're going to deck out your monsters in Magic items, you would adjust their CR accordingly (or consider it a favourable circumstance for the monsters). Don't be afraid to similarly take into account your parties magic items when deciding what monsters they can handle and their encounter budget.

5) Failure to improvise. Many DMs run monsters as written, and most players pretty much know those monsters by now (have a reasonable idea of what they can, and cannot do). Mix it up and surprise your players. They can hit those monsters where it hurts, and can assess challenges on the spot by looking at them. Mix it up and surprise them.

Example: Most PCs know what a Troll is... but do they know what a War Troll Zealot is? Take a Troll, put it in Full Plate (AC 18), increase its Strength to 20, give it a Maul and change Multi-attack to (+8 to hit, 2d12+5 -plus a DC 16 Str save or be knocked Prone) and immunity to the Charmed condition, and bump its CR up by 1. They wont know what the heck is going on.

That's my thinking based on my observations online and in person with multiple DM's and groups around the place. All the above has a massive impact on encounter challenge.