Half-dragon as a class
- Thread starter Rampant
- Start date
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
Dread Necromancer has a built in fear class ability, see if that would make a good starting point for you.
That would of course depend on the base statistics. Obviously, you wouldn't what you have at first with 6+Int. mod. Also there are many ways to counter and avoid fear altogether. Personally, having it as a halmark while still being an average character in most other respects isn't broken at all.
cjosephs1s
First Post
You asked a question so I answered it. While the two-weapon fighting rules might have been a little fuzzy in my head as it was 4am and they've changed how it works from 3.0 to 3.5 but the basic concept is that at the end of the progression they get all 5 natural attacks at the following bonus for 20th level. +20 bite/+15 claw/+15 claw/+10 wing/+5 tail. You can word it however you want to but that's what I had envisioned it ending up as in my head..maybe I was unclear on my description..if so I apologize and hopefully this makes more sense.
I'd give them an extra weapon everytime they would normally get another attack. So they start off with a Bite attack only. Then at 6 get 2 claws, then at 11 get the wings (literally they grow wings or their wings are finally big enough to do something and they can fly) and then at 16 thier tail has grown and matured and they get that attack as well.
I dont' like your "I'm either a combat machine with lots of attacks and no armor or lots of armor with no attacks" template. Its an up front fighter type so it needs to have good offense and defense. So lets say a person wants to not have any natural armor bonus and all these attacks? Are they going to be stuck with an AC of like 13 the whole game and just get the crap beat out of them every fight and have to be rezzed on tough opponents that deal lots of damage? Can they wear armor? Are they going to get a nice boost to Damage reduction if they don't have armor? Being able to hit something is nice but if you can't take the punishment then the player will not want to go into combat as the front line fighter as this one is supposed to do. They are going to want to be like a rogue or bard where they let someone else get beat on and then move in for special attack or use their abilities as "support" for the group.
I'd also look at giving this class bonus feats at every 3 or 4 levels to help its combat prowess or to bolster its special attacks (unless your going to do it naturally with special stuff. But if player customization is what you are going for then generic bonus feats are the way to go).
1. Size increase: Make at least large and possibly huge
2. Ability to ignore energy resistance and treat immunity as resistance: Give energy resistance that increases to immunity for whatever type of dragon they pick
3. automatic elemental enhancement abilities for the natural weapons ( the various -ings and bursts): I believe there is a feat for this in one of the dragon books so I'd say no
4. Spell Resistance: Nope. Give DR instead. the better it is the lower. Example if you want DR x/+1 then make x end up at like 20 or 30. If its x/- cap it at like 5 or maybe even as high as 10 but this is really pushing it. Or do a hybrid where it progresses and goes from like 2/adamantite to 15/+5 over stages to keep it balanced
5. Improved armor, weapon, shield profs: No shields this is just tacky sounding and how many dragons have you ever heard of that use a shield? No weapons. They get natural attacks and should rely on them. Make them do more damage over time and as it increases in size. Give them a nice Natural Armor bonus that caps at about +15 but no armor profs. The less NA the more regular armor they can wear So if you cap it at like 10 give them medium. If you cap it at 5 give heavy.
I'd give them an extra weapon everytime they would normally get another attack. So they start off with a Bite attack only. Then at 6 get 2 claws, then at 11 get the wings (literally they grow wings or their wings are finally big enough to do something and they can fly) and then at 16 thier tail has grown and matured and they get that attack as well.
I dont' like your "I'm either a combat machine with lots of attacks and no armor or lots of armor with no attacks" template. Its an up front fighter type so it needs to have good offense and defense. So lets say a person wants to not have any natural armor bonus and all these attacks? Are they going to be stuck with an AC of like 13 the whole game and just get the crap beat out of them every fight and have to be rezzed on tough opponents that deal lots of damage? Can they wear armor? Are they going to get a nice boost to Damage reduction if they don't have armor? Being able to hit something is nice but if you can't take the punishment then the player will not want to go into combat as the front line fighter as this one is supposed to do. They are going to want to be like a rogue or bard where they let someone else get beat on and then move in for special attack or use their abilities as "support" for the group.
I'd also look at giving this class bonus feats at every 3 or 4 levels to help its combat prowess or to bolster its special attacks (unless your going to do it naturally with special stuff. But if player customization is what you are going for then generic bonus feats are the way to go).
1. Size increase: Make at least large and possibly huge
2. Ability to ignore energy resistance and treat immunity as resistance: Give energy resistance that increases to immunity for whatever type of dragon they pick
3. automatic elemental enhancement abilities for the natural weapons ( the various -ings and bursts): I believe there is a feat for this in one of the dragon books so I'd say no
4. Spell Resistance: Nope. Give DR instead. the better it is the lower. Example if you want DR x/+1 then make x end up at like 20 or 30. If its x/- cap it at like 5 or maybe even as high as 10 but this is really pushing it. Or do a hybrid where it progresses and goes from like 2/adamantite to 15/+5 over stages to keep it balanced
5. Improved armor, weapon, shield profs: No shields this is just tacky sounding and how many dragons have you ever heard of that use a shield? No weapons. They get natural attacks and should rely on them. Make them do more damage over time and as it increases in size. Give them a nice Natural Armor bonus that caps at about +15 but no armor profs. The less NA the more regular armor they can wear So if you cap it at like 10 give them medium. If you cap it at 5 give heavy.
1. They currently get light armor, and bucklers (i used the proficiencies listed for a dragon with shape-shifting as the basis of the weapon armor profs). Does that help?
2. They already get resistance and immunity. My question is should they gain the ability to ignore/reduce the effectiveness of the enemy's resistance/immunity. See the substitution and admixture options for breath weapons are spell based instead of feat based, since we're not giving them spells I figured it might be a good idea to give them some method for dealing with creatures normally resistant/immune to their breath weapons
Thinking about it this could be fine as a feat.
3. My main issue with the size is dungeon crawling, I suppose I could give them the ability to move between large and medium, or the ability to fake being medium for the purposes of squeezing through stuff. Also if we're gonna jack it up to huge that's gonna be a PrC or something.
4. I'm not concerned about the intimidate score being too high from things like Cha or Skill investment, I'm talking about all the +8 and +30 skill boosting items and spells lying around the place.
5. Yes there will be bonus feats, but I'm waiting to finish the fear affects to decide how many to hand out and were.
What if I divorced NA from the Natural weapons? Made it a separate progression, but kept the cherry picking for natural weapons, only instead of NA each weapon has an upgraded form or two that can be gained instead of an unwanted natural weapon.
2. They already get resistance and immunity. My question is should they gain the ability to ignore/reduce the effectiveness of the enemy's resistance/immunity. See the substitution and admixture options for breath weapons are spell based instead of feat based, since we're not giving them spells I figured it might be a good idea to give them some method for dealing with creatures normally resistant/immune to their breath weapons
Thinking about it this could be fine as a feat.
3. My main issue with the size is dungeon crawling, I suppose I could give them the ability to move between large and medium, or the ability to fake being medium for the purposes of squeezing through stuff. Also if we're gonna jack it up to huge that's gonna be a PrC or something.
4. I'm not concerned about the intimidate score being too high from things like Cha or Skill investment, I'm talking about all the +8 and +30 skill boosting items and spells lying around the place.
5. Yes there will be bonus feats, but I'm waiting to finish the fear affects to decide how many to hand out and were.
What if I divorced NA from the Natural weapons? Made it a separate progression, but kept the cherry picking for natural weapons, only instead of NA each weapon has an upgraded form or two that can be gained instead of an unwanted natural weapon.
Well what is the theme of this class? I mean what would be the personal goals of the being in the game that would want to take this class? As of now you are trying to incorporate everything of a half-dragon+. I am most certainly not saying it should be worse or as good but a good class has a certain focus in which it thrives and expands. I think you do have a good idea with a draconic fighter but I think if you can develop a theme for this character things will fall into place on what is necessary and what isn't.
It appears that you are trying to incorporate several "classes" into one.
What I mean is that you seem to want to include the monk's unarmed attack, the dragon fire adept's breath weapon and some of the warlock's resistance abilities as well as wishing to move towards some natural armor and high BAB.
Each of the classes I reference have their ability as the main focus of the class' progressions (they get some other things along the way but their main progression work with their central ability).
A breath weapon usable every round is base ability - if it is in addition to natural weaponry then it's uses need to be limited - maybe tie it into the a number of times per day equal to Charisma bonus +1.
Ok that's just simply untrue Irdegg, Many classes run 2-3 such primary abilities.
Just look at the druid, it's got full casting an animal companion, and wildshaping.
Ranger: Combat style, animal companion
Paladin: Smiting, Mount
Barbarian: Rage, great survivability
Rogue: Sneak attack, skill monkey, survivability
Furthermore I'm trying very hard to avoid the mistakes of the monk's unarmed progression here. The monk fell into the trap of suck now, be great later. I.e. their damage output compared to a similarly focused martial weapon using class was low until their base damage got bosted a few times at which point it became increasingly difficult for the weapon user to keep up.
Yes I want the natural weapons to be improved at higher levels but I like the idea of doing that with abilities instead of increasing base damage.
I'm working on some fear effects that I think should be the last major ability, and involves all the other abilities. I just really wish I could implement the skill use version, I'm just worried it'd be OP with all the cheap massive skill boosters.
So I'm thinking a more traditional type thing, Will save to avoid being shaken when X happens, increasing area and the number of triggers as level increases.
Just look at the druid, it's got full casting an animal companion, and wildshaping.
Ranger: Combat style, animal companion
Paladin: Smiting, Mount
Barbarian: Rage, great survivability
Rogue: Sneak attack, skill monkey, survivability
Furthermore I'm trying very hard to avoid the mistakes of the monk's unarmed progression here. The monk fell into the trap of suck now, be great later. I.e. their damage output compared to a similarly focused martial weapon using class was low until their base damage got bosted a few times at which point it became increasingly difficult for the weapon user to keep up.
Yes I want the natural weapons to be improved at higher levels but I like the idea of doing that with abilities instead of increasing base damage.
I'm working on some fear effects that I think should be the last major ability, and involves all the other abilities. I just really wish I could implement the skill use version, I'm just worried it'd be OP with all the cheap massive skill boosters.
So I'm thinking a more traditional type thing, Will save to avoid being shaken when X happens, increasing area and the number of triggers as level increases.
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