Half-Dragons [Sage Advice]

[Wolf72]

quote:
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Originally posted by Wolf72:
woo hoo! we have an intention ... Monte Cook originally intended that increase all class lvl HD.

www.montecook.com On the msg boards, DnD rules. Now the question is whether or not monsters HD count as class HD. I think they do, there is some evidence in ECL (at a min ECL is the creatures HD ... basically acting as a lvl), and skill points for some monsters are based off of HD used as lvls (not strong, but there)
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we have intentions (kind of like drafts) and then we have final copies (kind of like what gets printed ... usually) ... And thanks Sage!!

Greetins Higher Program ...

[in media res]

1 ... so the template says to increase the HD by one type to a max of d12 (fine)

Only racial HD.

2 ... then I looked at Fight Club on the wizards site for ideas (can we say confusion or contradiction?)

2a ... the kobold example has both of it's HD increased (d10 to d12 for ranger, and d4 to d6 for sorceror)

Incorrect.

2b ... the other two examples only increase the monsters HD (d8's to d10, but the their class HD remains unchanged)

Correct.

2c ... I'm missing something here, because I thought that all the HD should be bumped up.

See first answer.

3 ... if creature already has a d12 for HD should it get the +1 hp/lvl as said in the DMG?

No.

Skip Williams

[edit: added in bold-face for easier reading]

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Interesting.

Clearly not the way I interpreted it. And not the way a literal interpretation would read.

Also, it appears, not the intended rule (per Monte)

But, OTOH, the rule was a bad case of inconsistency. So a little creative interpretation probably is not a bad thing.

Hope they add this to the MM errata (chuckle)

 

[Darkness]

Oh. My. God.

Oh, well - I guess I'll do what the Sage says; racially altered HD by class should be restricted to things like undead anyway...

 

[dvvega]

Hate to say this, but Mr Sage has got it wrong this time. On Monte Cook's boards there was a discussion about this. As Wolf stated Monte intended for it to increase class hit dice.

What is missing is the rest of the thread as well which will quantify that statement. The rest of the thread was the fact that most +0 ECL monsters get all their class hit dice increased, while higher ECL creatures were only getting their racial hit dice increased (according to WOTC examples).

I think Monte's statement meant "racial hit dice increase as already confirmed and stated PLUS I meant for class hit dice to go up as well".

 

[Wolf72]

remember there was more than one person responsible for 3e. Sometimes rules get changed or modified ....

basically drafts can be very different from final prints (well, hopefully final prints

 

[Caliban]

remember there was more than one person responsible for 3e. Sometimes rules get changed or modified ....

basically drafts can be very different from final prints (well, hopefully final prints

Except that the Sage appears to be trying to change this after the fact, and he simply can't do that without errata.

The way it reads in the MM, it seems to affect class HD and monster HD, not just monster HD.

Given the fact that being a half dragon is going to cost you 3 levels worth of hit points, I'm inclined to grant the increase to class HD as Monte intended. *shrug*

 

[EOL]

I've used the half dragon template in the campaign I'm running, and giving up 3 (now 4 with the March Dragon) HD is a huge dis-ad, even though the player who has this character is the exact opposite of a power gamer I was still worried, but if anything after loosing all those spell casting levels (he's a cleric) and the HD it's been remarkable balanced. To take away that HD bump is not necessary.

 

[kreynolds]

Howdy folks! I know I'm butting in kind of late but I figured I'd go ahead and add my 2cp. I'm looking at the Half-Dragon template on page 214 and 215 of the MM. The sample half-dragon is a half-dragon (red)/half-ogre. It's racial hit die have been increased by 1 (ogres have a d8 for hit die but it now has a d10). Obviously, if the half-dragon (red)/half-ogre were to gain class levels, it would gain the hit die of those levels, nothing higher or lower. Perhaps some of the samples on Fight Club are incorrect? And yes, I know what Monte says about this, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. Am I missing something here? I ask because I fail to see any inconsistencies. Please let me know because I have a player who is interested in using the half-dragon template.

 

[Caliber]

A Half-Dragon loses 4 hit dice because of ECL. As it is, they are losing a lot of power, especially in the HP department. I see no reason to with hold the hit dice increase to their class hit dice.

Plus of course, this would make a Half-Dragon/Half-Ogre much much more powerful than a Half-Dragon/Half-Human. The Ogre would get all of their racial hit dice advanced, while the poor human wouldn't have any. Sounds screwed up to me.

Enhance all the hit dice, class and race.

 

[Jairami]

The Ogre would get all of their racial hit dice advanced, while the poor human wouldn't have any. Sounds screwed up to me.

Enhance all the hit dice, class and race.

Precisely my opinion.

No slight meant towards Skip.