D&D 5E Half Elf vs Human

[Sadras]

@KaiiLurker @TwoSix @Bryk
Yeah, I did mention unless Cha is gonna be your dump stat (which does allude to characters not concerned with charisma)..but people kept missing that.

@KaiiLurker
Half-elf baggage, how relevant is that really on a scale of 1-10 throughout the entire playerbase? And this is not the queue for one or two posters to tell me how important it is in their campaign. It's a rhetorical question.

Also compare your possible Human de facto +2 ability with the extra feat specials VERSUS +2 Cha, darkvision, elvish, fey ancestry, live longer, 1 skill proficiency and since you're counting the +1 human original, you might as well include the half elf +1. I think your +2 de facto falls quite a bit short.

@TwoSix
1 skill proficiency being a wash? No, reread please, Human's get ONE, Half Elves gets TWO. I was reflecting the net scenario against the Human feat.

Where do I sign up? Keep your feats and fire breath.

So glad someone got it on this thread

I thought Half-Elves only got a +1 on one other ability score.

No, they get +1 to TWO ability scores, very lucky these half-elves.

People who choose races/classes based on flavor and theme rather than optimization?

Fair enough, I like those people, but then again I am the DM, I have no need for optimization...much.

Human's +1 language as well. A feat is the equivalent to +2 to a stat, and some might argue more so.

Once again: Humans have Common + ONE other VERSUS Half-elves who have Common, Elvish + ONE other.
I essentially stripped all the additional benefits a half-elf gets, which are not a "wash", and compared it to the Human Feat - that is how I reflected it, but it apparently confused a lot of people I see.

So Human Feat VERSUS Half Elf's +2 Charisma, 1 skill proficiency, Elvish, Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, Live Longer

It helps drastically with theme characters

Don't disagree, I love the feats. Feats and backgrounds make incredible concepts

Seconded. There was a fairly in-depth discussion of human vs. half-elf over there. Personally, I'm not satisfied that we've achieved any kind of resolution yet.

Thank you for the link @Quartz (finally proof that I am not alone in my thinking)
will check it out, I was also thinking along the lines of proficiency in an additional save but see my suggestion below.

Here's my suggested human fix from that thread: Please provide feedback.

@doctorhook, I haven't checked out the link, but from my perspective that is overkill. I would go with

+1 on THREE ability scores
ONE feat
ONE proficiency skill

Essentially we are attempting to equate against the Half Elf's extra's, (haven't checked the other races so maybe that's what you might have been doing...) being:

+2 Cha, 1 skill proficiency, elvish , fey ancestry, live longer,
which are currently compared to the Human's feat.

and I think these two options I would be happy with:

• ONE Feat and a +1 on ONE ability score (no stacking)
• ONE Feat and bonus save proficiency

Only because I value Feats more than a generic +2 in an ability, but that is my personal preference.

Alternatively if you want pure math change those options to

• ONE Feat and a +1 on ONE ability score and a language (no stacking)
• ONE Feat and bonus FEAT Resiliency (no stacking)

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

 

[Supersonic159]

Charisma is going to play a pretty critical role in this edition, look how many casters use it! Way more than I was expecting.

 

[gyor]

Both approach versatility in different ways. The Half Elf mixes human like veristility, more languages, more skills, with elvish traits, for an interesting approach. Humans are straight up pure versitility untainted by a mix approach.

I guess it comes down to if a feat is really important to have to your build at level 1st level or if you can wait or if you building a skill monkey or whatever.

And yeah human, elves, half elves, even dragonborn have more diversity then tieflings, but no one beats the tiefling in creepy weirdness, not even drow! ;p

 

[Psikerlord#]

I have the opposite view to the OP, I think humans are generally a much stronger choice than half-elves. 5e is the first Dnd where I've thought - human? HELL YEAH!! The darksight thing is not a huge adv, unless your whole party has it, there's going to be someone with a light source anyway.... And feats are soooooo awesome in 5e that I think that bumps humans up to the strongest race, or at least in the mix at the top. Shield mastery, lucky, dungeon delver, alert, skulker, magic initiate, martial adept, defensive duelist.... the list goes on and on - so many very cool abilities you can grab at level 1 as a human.

 

[Plaguescarred]

+2 CHA/Fey Ancestry/Darkvision may not be as useful as particular feat for some build though. Some fighter may instead prefer effects from feats such as Heavy Armor Master, Sentinel or Polearm Master for exemple.

 

[trentonjoe]

I have the opposite view to the OP, I think humans are generally a much stronger choice than half-elves. 5e is the first Dnd where I've thought - human? HELL YEAH!! The darksight thing is not a huge adv, unless your whole party has it, there's going to be someone with a light source anyway.... And feats are soooooo awesome in 5e that I think that bumps humans up to the strongest race, or at least in the mix at the top. Shield mastery, lucky, dungeon delver, alert, skulker, magic initiate, martial adept, defensive duelist.... the list goes on and on - so many very cool abilities you can grab at level 1 as a human.

I feel the exact same way. I actually had to force myself to make nonhuman characters when tinkering around.

 

[Dausuul]

I'm thinking unless Charisma is going to be a dump stat, Half-Elf everytime.
I mean feats are gorgeous, but a feat does not possibly equate to a +2 Cha boost, Elvish, 1 additional skill proficiency, longer life, fey ancestry & darkvision.

I completely disagree. If Cha is not your primary stat, +2 to it is quite a small benefit; +1 on your social skills and saving throws against plane-traveling shenanigans, yay. Languages are tiny. Longer life pretty much never comes into play. Fey ancestry and darkvision are nice perks, but only perks; darkvision is way less useful than you'd think, mostly because there's always going to be that one guy whose character doesn't have it and forces the party to tote around a light source. Skill proficiency is quite respectable, but nowhere near as big as a feat.

Basically, you've got a pile of little bonuses versus one giant benefit. However, the little bonuses are all predetermined except skill proficiency, so if your character isn't in a position to make good use of the little bonuses, they don't add up to much.

As I see it, if you're playing a character for whom Charisma is a primary stat, half-elf over human is a no-brainer unless there's a feat you absolutely have to have at 1st level. If it's an important secondary stat, it's a tough call. Otherwise, human wins solidly.

(The "+1 to all stats" human, however, gets its butt solidly kicked by the half-elf.)

 

[Dausuul]

@KaiiLurker @TwoSix @Bryk
Yeah, I did mention unless Cha is gonna be your dump stat (which does allude to characters not concerned with charisma)..but people kept missing that.

So, "unless you're playing 8 out of 12 classes." Well... okay. If you're asserting that half-elf is usually a better choice for players of warlocks, sorcerers, bards, and maybe paladins, I agree.

You seem to be using a different definition of "dump stat" from what I'm used to. To me, a dump stat is something you put at 8, leave at 8, and avoid ever using if you can manage it. I seldom do that with Charisma because I like to be able to use social skills; but that doesn't mean +2 Charisma is going to rock my world, or come close to equaling the value of a feat to me.

 

[Juriel]

Human Feat vs
Half Elf +2 Cha, +1 skill proficiency, elvish, darkvision, charm/sleep/aging resistance

Half-elves get more as a generic package. However, that feat from 1st level makes a focused build so much better! Or thematic, if that is a thing for you.

Heavy armor master, Shield master, Great weapon master, all powerful and great feats for a warrior, that benefit him so much more than +2 Cha would.

 

[Mistwell]

I mostly agree with [MENTION=58197]Dausuul[/MENTION] on this one. But I wanted to add that I am really happy half-elves are getting more love this edition and that some people even think they are the best race. That's great. In so many other editions they were the red-headed stepchild race that some people wanted for flavor reasons, but very few wanted for mechanical reasons. If people like them also for mechanical reasons this edition, that's a good thing.