Half-elves........why no one chooses them?

[Herobizkit]

I'm a power-gamer off and on. I haven't played or even considered playing a half-elf since 2nd edition.

In 2nd edition, half-elves were my favourite race because they had the widest selection of multi-classing options, as well as a few "Half-Elf only" combinations (such as Ranger/Cleric).

In 3.x, they get +2 Diplomacy and Gather Info, as well as a +1 to "sense" checks. Seems to me they were pushing the half-elf towards the Bard class. Now, for some reason, teh Bard is teh suXX0rz in 3rd ed. I used to love bards, especially Half-Elf Bard/somethings. No longer. They've completely lost their appeal, and I can't fathom why.

So when you combine the least popular race and the least popular class... why WOULD anyone want to play a Half-Elf?

My suggestion: Give Half-Elves a flat +2 CHA, and Human skill points. In addition to their usual bonuses, this should make Half-Elves a juicy choice for practically any class.

The question then becomes "Why play humans at all?" My answer: "I didn't in 2nd edition, either" and then I laugh.

 

[Drowbane]

All this nonsense about how the 1/2 Elf doesn't completely suck compared to the Human is just that... nonsense. Compare the 1/2 Elf to Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and even Halflings and then try to tell me with a straight face that they're an equal race.

As Seetan said, just because the 1/2 Elf can be played doesn't mean they don't suck.

 

[Bront]

All this nonsense about how the 1/2 Elf doesn't completely suck compared to the Human is just that... nonsense. Compare the 1/2 Elf to Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and even Halflings and then try to tell me with a straight face that they're an equal race.

As Seetan said, just because the 1/2 Elf can be played doesn't mean they don't suck.

See my elf compairison up 3 posts

 

[Drowbane]

See my elf compairison up 3 posts

Oh, I saw it. In a way I was really just building off of your post

Sorry mate, should've given ya some props. hehe

 

[Bront]

Oh, I saw it. In a way I was really just building off of your post

Sorry mate, should've given ya some props. hehe

Just wanted to make sure you saw it

 

[Gnome]

If you compare a elves vs half-elves, the half-elf compares much more favorably if a martial class is being played (since the free weapon proficiencies of the elf become irrelevant). Mechanically speaking, I'd much rather play a half-elf meele class than an elf: no CON penalty, and favored class of ANY for dips into other classes (especially useful if playing something other than a straight fighter to dip into fighter for feats).

Before reading this thread, it also never occured to me how useful their +2 vs. enchantment spells ability is, especially for a fighter type with a low Will save. Iron Will is a common feat choice for fighter types, so this can either save the character a feat, or they can get the feat anyway for additional protection. This applies to Elves as well, of course, but the CON penalty is a killer for meele types.

If I were playing a half-elf of a non-meele class, I'd ask my DM if I could play the variant half-elves from the DMG that get the elven weapon proficiencies in exchange for their favored class being limited to wizard.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I personally would only play a Half-Elf in a couple of situations (some of them already noted):

(1) When I want to make a Diplomat/Information Gatherer (usually a Bard or Rogue)
(2) When I want some Elven abilities (immunity to sleep) but no bonus/penalty to stats.
(3) When I want some Elven abilities (immunity to sleep) while also making multiclassing a lot easier (favored class: Any)
(4) Roleplay reasons

I think the Half-Elf is just about on par with Humans, with the slight favorite going toward Humans because of the bonus feat (and bonus skill points to a lesser extent). Other than that, the Half-Elf has better advantages. So if you aren't making a feat heavy/dependant character, and want ease in multiclassing, Half-Elf would be a good choice.

 

[irdeggman]

Remember that the only reasons get +4 skill points at first level is that the number of skill points a character gets at 1st level are multiplied by 4. If that piece of math wasn't involved then they would only get +1.

So how, really do half-elves compare to humans?

Both have favored class- any.

Neither has an ability score adjustment.

Both can choose any language as starting bonus languages (number equal to INt mod)

Humans get a bonus feat and +1 skill point per level

Half elves get low light vision, +1 to search, Listen and Spot checks, +2 to diplomacy and Gather Information checks, they are considered elf for things pertaining to race, they also get elf as an automatic language (a human has to use his bonus languages to pick that one up)

Mechanically, if anything they are actually superior to humans.

But why do people choose humans over half-elves?

IMO it is either because they want that bonus feat (same reason they choose humans over other races too) or they don't have a good "feel" for how a half-elf should act. They appear to be more or less humans with pointy ears.

Now this latter issue is really a campaign specific issue. Eberron (as has been pointed out previously) is an example of a setting that has done a decent job of giving meaningful flavor to all of the races.

Dark Sun and Birthright are two others that have done a decent job of setting up a role-playing background for the races, IMO.

 

[KarinsDad]

So, yes, Half-Elves are mechanicaly inferior as well as somewhat redundant. If you need the extra skills and feat, you go human. If you don't you go Elf.

I think yours was the best analysis in this thread.

However, I have a different conclusion:

If you need versatility, you go human.
If you do not need versatility and do not care about the CON hit, you go elf.
If you do not need versatility and do care about the CON hit, you go half elf.

One of the things I cannot stand about Elves is the CON hit. For my characters, main ability score(s) is first, CON is second, and DEX is third.

There seems to be a large DEX is King crowd in the DND community whereas I've always thought that CON is King. YMMV.

PS. I often play Dwarves.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I think yours was the best analysis in this thread.

However, I have a different conclusion:

If you need versatility, you go human.
If you do not need versatility and do not care about the CON hit, you go elf.
If you do not need versatility and do care about the CON hit, you go half elf.

One of the things I cannot stand about Elves is the CON hit. For my characters, main ability score(s) is first, CON is second, and DEX is third.

There seems to be a large DEX is King crowd in the DND community whereas I've always thought that CON is King. YMMV.

PS. I often play Dwarves.

Of course you can get around this by playing one of the elf subraces (if they are available to you). But if we are just talking Core, then yeah, I concur that a -2 Con hurts a lot of classes. I would be less concerned with an Elf Wizard though. They have low HPs as it is. 1 less HP/level isn't going to make or break a Wizard. That is what their spells are for, to add more HPs (False Life) or make it hard for them the take HP damage to begin with.