Half Ogre discussion (split from other thread)

[Arkhandus]

Just wanted to mention a few things.... I dunno if anyone's already addressed this in revising the setting guide, but someone needs to clarify the specifics of the Nagan's bite attack and poison, as well as clarifying whether or not Lizardfolk have natural attacks like in the Monster Manual, and if so the specifics regarding those natural attacks. Ditto for any other races that may have natural attacks, though I think Nagans and Lizardfolk are the only ones. Also, you may need to clarify the matter of languages, as in specifying what languages characters start with and what bonus languages they can choose for high Intelligence (since races in the PH are normally restricted in both matters). Also, just to note a little opinion too, I still think you should keep the racial changes in the 3.5 Revised guide that are in the original setting guide....

 

[Aguirre]

I'll second that. I had a great half-ogre made up, until I was told that half-ogres had been made useless in the new 'edition'. A level adjustment of +2 for that race is nutso, considering a full *ogre* is +2 in the monster manual. With no bonus hit dice, it would mean while the other characters are third level, you'll still have one hit die, making you more feeble than the party mage.

It's a shame, because I was really looking forward to playing ol' Walfilbalf.

 

[Emiricol]

I'll second that. I had a great half-ogre made up, until I was told that half-ogres had been made useless in the new 'edition'. A level adjustment of +2 for that race is nutso, considering a full *ogre* is +2 in the monster manual. With no bonus hit dice, it would mean while the other characters are third level, you'll still have one hit die, making you more feeble than the party mage.

It's a shame, because I was really looking forward to playing ol' Walfilbalf.

Actually, a full ogre has +4 racial levels and +2 level adjustment, for a total of +6.

 

[Emiricol]

Just wanted to mention a few things.... I dunno if anyone's already addressed this in revising the setting guide, but someone needs to clarify the specifics of the Nagan's bite attack and poison, as well as clarifying whether or not Lizardfolk have natural attacks like in the Monster Manual, and if so the specifics regarding those natural attacks. Ditto for any other races that may have natural attacks, though I think Nagans and Lizardfolk are the only ones. Also, you may need to clarify the matter of languages, as in specifying what languages characters start with and what bonus languages they can choose for high Intelligence (since races in the PH are normally restricted in both matters). Also, just to note a little opinion too, I still think you should keep the racial changes in the 3.5 Revised guide that are in the original setting guide....

Thanks, Arkhandus - we'll double check these.

 

[Aguirre]

Perhaps, but I said it has a +2 level adjustment, which it does. For that adjustment, it gets:
+10 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha
Large Size
40' speed
60' Darkvision
+5 natural armor bonus

A half-ogre could easily be written so it could be +1, or even +0. That way, it could be playable. As it is, nobody will ever play one again, and you may as well not include it.

 

[Arkhandus]

Well, remember that those ability mods, natural armor, size benefits, and so on are also part of the 4 racial hit dice of an ogre; ogres dont' really get any class abilities for their racial hit dice, they instead gain the natural armor, size, and miscellaneous stuff, ala Savage Species. Only the excessive Strength probably contributes to the Level Adjustment (the other ability mods balance out, with the Dex and Cha penalties being a meager sort of balancing factor for the Str bonus, with the LA balancing out the rest). I dunno if half-ogres in the Revised T13K Setting Guide are going to be the same as 3.5 MM half-ogres or whatever....?

 

[Emiricol]

As he said - most of those bonuses are included in the +4 racial levels. He does not get all the bonuses you listed due to the +2 level adjustment.

 

[DMEntropy]

I do agree with Aguirre that no one in their right mind would play a half-ogre with ECL+2 as we currently have him described. Compare him to a Level 3 human (or any other ECL+0 race) of the same class. It is almost a no-brainer.

 

[Emiricol]

Current Half Ogre racial traits are below for discussion. I've seen several half-ogres in play, so not sure about the claim that no one would ever play one, but the CMs invite more discussion on this topic in general.

Below is the half-ogre as it is currently in the revised guide:

• Giant Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-ogre is considered a giant. Half-ogres can use magic items with racially specific powers as giants.
• Darkvision (Ex): The half-ogre has darkvision to a range of 60’.
• Ability Adjustments: +6 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. Half-ogres are as strong as an ox and about as smart as one. They are also slow and ugly.
• Armor Class: Half-ogres are naturally tough and gain a +2 natural armor bonus.
• Automatic Languages: Common or Giant
• Size: Medium
• Favored Class: Barbarian

For comparison, the Sauran (a Lizardman-like race) has the following:

• +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.
• Medium size.
• A Sauran's base land speed is 30 feet.
• Racial Skills: Sauran have a +2 racial bonus on Balance, Jump, and Swim checks.
• Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Sauran is automatically proficient with a Shortspear, Longspear and Spear.
• +4 natural armor bonus.
• Natural Weapons: Bite (1d4).
• Automatic Languages: Draconic, Tradespeak.
• Favored Class: Fighter.
• Level adjustment +1.

 

[Emiricol]

I split this topic from the other (on the setting guide), to keep both discussions more focused.