D&D 5E Halfling rogue sniping from the the second rank

[the Jester]

Here's a tip for DMs who love to houserule everything: Your players are probably not impressed.

I think you're addressing a specific type of houseruling here, where the DM nerfs a character option, yes?

There are lots of other house rules possible, and some are even requested by the group (for instance, I use a "colorful critical hit" system that was created long ago in response to player demand).

I don't mind houserules but if the DM is overriding a rules legal option, it should be because its not fun for the group, not because the DM takes a personal exception to it.

I think there are plenty of valid reasons to adjust things. Sometimes something doesn't fit a given setting. There's no reason that a DM should have to shoehorn something into a game where it doesn't fit; for instance, there's no reason that a Forgotten Realms DM should have to let a player use a warforged. And historically, D&D has been full of options that really, really needed mechanical fixing, whether because they were overpowered (the 1e cavalier) or because they were too weak (the 3.0 bard).

 

[Snapdragyn]

Therefore when the halfling pops out from behind the fighter and shoots, he/she becomes unhidden. Also, the enemies now can see the halfling. Because of that, the halfling cannot attempt to hide again until line of sight is broken again. This can be from the halfling moving around a corner, or the enemy being blinded.

As long as the halfling is visible, and enemies can see, the halfling cannot hide again. The halfling can't just duck behind the same fighter or another character in plain view and hide again if an enemy is in position to see it happen.

Keep in mind the rogue doesn't need advantage to gain sneak attack damage. Just fighting adjacent to an ally grants that. That is powerful enough on its own to make the fighter look like a 2nd string combatant without adding cheesy advantage on every ranged attack.




It wouldn't be if advantage didn't grant ridiculous amounts of sneak attack damage on top of the weapon. Oh its only a halfling throwing a dagger -FOR 5d6 DAMAGE!

Bolding mine.

You do realize that the portion of your statement which I bolded directly contravenes the wording of Naturally Stealthy, right? I mean, it specifically states that a Lightfoot Halfling can attempt to hide behind a larger creature. If you want to remove that ability from the game at your table, it's your table, of course - go for it! But as a general rules interpretation, I think this is completely off base.

Since you recognize that advantage isn't needed to get sneak attack, I'm not clear why you then bring up sneak attack damage as a reason to disallow this tactic. Would you disallow the halfling rogue/mage who casts invisible on itself, doesn't move at all, & then shoots a bow from having advantage?

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah the halfling does not have to 'pop out' to fire. She stays in the same place and shots past the fighter (at a penalty of -2 for cover). Although that is irrelevant. The target knows where it is after firing but the halfling can roll stealth behind the fighter and become hidden again as another action. In the same way someone behind a solid wall is hidden, a halfing can be hidden behind a human. No one else can but, man, they're stealthy as heck.

But people obviously see this very differently, so unless we get a FAQ/Sage Advice I guess just play it your group's way at the table. As long as before the PCs are made everyone knows where the rules stand on this everyone can have fun.

 

[Mistwell]

It's one of those "could go either way".

Some people think the halfling is seen before they try to hide, and therefore cannot try to hide due to the general rule prohibiting hiding when your foes can see you. Others think the halfling cannot be seen, due to their special relationship to that kind of cover, as represented by a specific rule that overrides the general rule.

It's going to take either DM decision, or a final word from WOTC.

For me, I see it just like a low wall. If the halfling could hide behind a low wall in those circumstances even though they were just seen, then they can hid behind the larger creature like a human. Because for halflings, and just for halflings, that human is the same as a low wall.

 

[drjones]

Yes the ability is unrealistic. Which is why it is right at home in D&D where pretty much every character does something unrealistic every day.

 

[Branduil]

Specific beats general. If a halfling can hide behind a human, they can hide behind a human. I don't see the extrapolation where they can't hide again because the enemy knows where they are, because the stealth rules don't address knowledge, only sight.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

This discussion seems to be more about the fact that some people think sneak attack (and/or advantage) is overpowered rather than anything particularly about how hiding works (although obviously that's the scapegoat rule).

And I'd like to know why.

For those that want to hold on to hope that hiding is harder than it appears to be in order to keep some semblance of control over sneak attack... why do you feel that the halfling getting sneak attack nearly* every round (with advantage!) is so OP?

I hope the answer is more interesting than "Cuz Damage!"

*edit to add... they still need to MAKE the stealth check

 

[Nikosandros]

As mentioned by several posters, for sneak attack it is sufficient to have an ally in melee with the target. I think that the issue is more with getting advantage every round.

Also, a rogue with proficiency and expertise in stealth has a rather easy time in passing those stealth checks against a lot of monsters.

 

[transtemporal]

I think there are plenty of valid reasons to adjust things. Sometimes something doesn't fit a given setting. There's no reason that a DM should have to shoehorn something into a game where it doesn't fit; for instance, there's no reason that a Forgotten Realms DM should have to let a player use a warforged. And historically, D&D has been full of options that really, really needed mechanical fixing, whether because they were overpowered (the 1e cavalier) or because they were too weak (the 3.0 bard).

Thats true but we're not talking about a marginal game mechanic here. Halflings as a race and Stealth mechanics are a pretty integral parts of almost every campaign setting. If you're going to change either of those mechanics, you should at least have a clear idea of what you're changing, why you're changing it and what its going to impact.

Like say the problem is "the group thinks getting sneak attack dmg by using stealth cheese mechanic is OP". First you really have to look at whether its OP compared to other characters. If it is, change it and use "cheese abuse" as the reason. If taking the sneak attack away would make the rogue underpowered, then I wouldn't change the mechanic. I would live with the cheese and hold it up as a perfect example of cheese.

 

[the Jester]

Thats true but we're not talking about a marginal game mechanic here. Halflings as a race and Stealth mechanics are a pretty integral parts of almost every campaign setting. If you're going to change either of those mechanics, you should at least have a clear idea of what you're changing, why you're changing it and what its going to impact.

Oh, absolutely- I was speaking more generally to the point that not all house rules are done to screw the players.