Hall of Many Panes

[Col_Pladoh]

Ciao!

All I can say is that we played through the whole of the module over aboout a year's time, usng the LA game rules. The players were alternately disconcerted and delighted, which to my mind means the material was quite appropos

Cheers,
Gary

 

[thundershot]

Gary,

I guess I'm just used to my players having some control over what happens to them, based on either decisions or die rolls. No saving throw to avoid becoming an acorn? Reflex save DC 13 or DIE INSTANTLY? Those harken back to my older gaming days (We had SO much fun during OD&D), but times have changed, and the players want to feel like they're in the driver's seat, with me, as the DM, only providing the roadways.

I do look forward to finish the books though.



Chris

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Players should NEVER be in the driver's seat. The DM is god!

 

[thundershot]

Okay, they should at least FEEL like they're driving.



Chris

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Maybe, as long as there are no brakes and the steering is loose.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Gary,

I guess I'm just used to my players having some control over what happens to them, based on either decisions or die rolls. No saving throw to avoid becoming an acorn? Reflex save DC 13 or DIE INSTANTLY? Those harken back to my older gaming days (We had SO much fun during OD&D), but times have changed, and the players want to feel like they're in the driver's seat, with me, as the DM, only providing the roadways.

I do look forward to finish the books though.



Chris

Sorry...

That sounds awfully like whining to me. Of course the players characters in a demanding adventure will find themselves in some very dangerous and desperate situations, even in very sedate and dare I say kid-glove campaigns were the GM doesn't credit his players with intelligence and ingenuity, believes they must be coddled. To the point, you never spring an unexpected trap on the party, confront them with a dangerous and deadly foe? If not, I am at a loss for words.

In the situation noted by you, the players must use their actual brains, not make-believe powers, to discover how their characters can survive the situation. Seeing that they are acorns, they should know perfectly well that a lot of big animals eat acorns, so keep out of sight and watch for what develops. There is a good deal of humor in the scenario, that counter-balancing the sense of looming danger.

My player party of around six Avatars soon came the place where they saw the squirrel carrying the real acorns to its nest in the hollow tree, figured logically that that risk was better than being on the ground with wild swine around, and got safely into the place they needed to be. There they found the exit portal when the squirrel went out for more nuts and escaped without much of a scratch--one too nervous player had ventured forth with his acorn Avatar and gotten some harm from a bird attack.

In summation, I can't imagine a basis for your complaints, but there's no accounting for varying tastes in what constitutes derring-do in gaming adventures.

Gary

 

[S'mon]

I think there's a genre issue - HoMP is very much in the Gygaxian genre of puns, puzzles and Xagig messing around with the poor PCs (& players!) for his own amusement. It's a long way out of the current D&D mainstream, as evidenced by Thundershot's reaction - I'd say the current D&D mainstream was largely determined by Monte Cook in his DMG advice and later work, which very much does emphasize reliance on PCs' powers rather than the powers of the players themselves. Also WoTC's general policy has been to emphasize "character building" as a goal for players - and by that I mean "building" in the sense that players of the Magic: The Gathering card game 'build' decks of cards. HoMP is very clearly in a very different vein.

 

[thundershot]

Well.... that's partially true. My group is very good about roleplaying. We end up with entire sessions where no dice are rolled. However, stats DO matter, especially the non-physical ones. If everyone is reduced to an acorn, and a character has an Int of... 5, logically, he's not gonna figure anything out, and become practically useless. Let's say he's a fighter. Now he has no weapons or ANYthing to contribute. The wizard probably has a high Int, but can't cast spells now, but is more likely to come up with a solution. I guess I'd rather the characters be able to figure things out rather than the players. Sometimes an Int check can be your friend. Also, do the acorns have any physical ability score penalties? Extra skill mods? AC bonus due to the tough hide? I totally understand what Gary is doing, but the problem is that it doesn't mesh well with d20. And we only play D&D/d20 (no time to learn anything else).

However, that doesn't mean I won't adapt it for my own purposes. I just hope Gary isn't offended by my opinion. I just felt that if I spent the money on the product, I could at least have some opinions on it.



Chris

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Indeed...

It is pretty well impossible to power game or enjoy H&S when your character is an acorn

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

...

However, that doesn't mean I won't adapt it for my own purposes. I just hope Gary isn't offended by my opinion. I just felt that if I spent the money on the product, I could at least have some opinions on it.


Chris

Hi Chris

I am not in the least offended, and I hope I have not been offensive in my responses, which, frankly, were written from an astonished perspective...mine

Further, that any player would find it amusing to have a character with the intellect of an idiot participating with a group of fellows in a campaign of any sort is quite beyond the pale IMO. That sort of PC would surely disrupt and degrade the quality of gaming experience experienced by the remainder of the group. that I know from personal experience.

Regardless of that, the money you expended on the module should provide the group with some 150 or so hours of game adventures and so the amortized cost is a real bargain--assuming that your players are interested in being challenged on all levels, personal as well as make-believe attributes of a pretended persona

Cheers,
Gary