Make him fight a flying opponent with DR. Paladins generally have very few feats and in my experience DR and flying screws them over because of their relatively low damage output and lack of skill with a ranged weapon. Plus, unless you play with ranged smiting feats, he wont be able to smite a flying opponent. He could prepare an action to attack when the flying opponent comes near to attack, that is if the flying opponent doesnt have ranged attacks. Generally these combats take a long time. A nightwing might make a worthwhile opponent. It is undead, however it does fly, has dispelling abilities, fair HP (144) and can summon greater shadows and dreadwraiths. It has DR 15/magic and silver so it might be easy to overcome depending how prepared your PC's are. Two nightwings would make formidable foes for a group of lvl 12 gestalts, especially if you allow them to summon before combat ensues.
hamper this paladin
- Thread starter apesamongus
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Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
Brimshack beat me to it... kid tied to shield. Always fun. 
Either that or give them an opponent to duel with. Blackguard/Evil Knight challenging them out to single combat? Make them a farily defensive build so they can last a while. Would keep the player busy and give them a warm glowy feeling of satisfaction?
Either that or give them an opponent to duel with. Blackguard/Evil Knight challenging them out to single combat? Make them a farily defensive build so they can last a while. Would keep the player busy and give them a warm glowy feeling of satisfaction?
apesamongus
First Post
That's the thing, I'm not trying to ruin his day.smootrk said:
ruining a players day is usually not the best way to do something. I like the idea of the black guard calling out the paladin (while the others are in their own fight). I prefer the idea of the giant using the shield maiden (Think I may just persuade the giant in my campaign to do something of the sort (yes, we're evil). I was thinking along the lines of the evil area effect. You could ask the party to cleanse the area, of course. Meanwhile, they suffer.
or you could play with his god/dess. All the gods have enemies and plots and plans. If this party keeps going for too much longer, they will be coming into these plans more and more. Is his god/dess not able to devote much attention to her followers today due to what is going on in his/her god-life?
while the paladin is doing his morning prayers he gets the feeling that his god is somewhat distracted today. In fact, rather distracted. Unable to grant him his unique abilities. Perhaps he/she will make it up tomorrow, but today... all resources are needed in his/her struggle.
Now.. the tank is still there, but gone are all the prayers and special abilities. Hampered, not harmed. And there is suggestion of good things to come the next day.
(this is similar to the evil area idea, of course, which may be more fitting in your campaign. The good guys in our campaign (dual sided campaign, really cool) are speaking almost directly with their god and are taking more and more of an active roll in his plans and plots. At low levels we knew he was there, now we are being sent on his missions, later... who knows. we're not there yet.)
or you could play with his god/dess. All the gods have enemies and plots and plans. If this party keeps going for too much longer, they will be coming into these plans more and more. Is his god/dess not able to devote much attention to her followers today due to what is going on in his/her god-life?
while the paladin is doing his morning prayers he gets the feeling that his god is somewhat distracted today. In fact, rather distracted. Unable to grant him his unique abilities. Perhaps he/she will make it up tomorrow, but today... all resources are needed in his/her struggle.
Now.. the tank is still there, but gone are all the prayers and special abilities. Hampered, not harmed. And there is suggestion of good things to come the next day.
(this is similar to the evil area idea, of course, which may be more fitting in your campaign. The good guys in our campaign (dual sided campaign, really cool) are speaking almost directly with their god and are taking more and more of an active roll in his plans and plots. At low levels we knew he was there, now we are being sent on his missions, later... who knows. we're not there yet.)
waning? Tell me you didn't say waning, you meant to say gaining. Remember... it's a battle up there, too. And today, perhaps the god has planned a huge move that is a sure win, scoring great amounts of power for him and his followers and crushing the followers of the opponent. The paladin must understand that a small sacrifice today will lead to blessings tomorrow. And tomorrow, perhaps the god grants the paladin a blessing through the day or an extra smite. Or that he turns as a couple caster levels greater for the day. Emphasize that the god is growing is power by doing this, and you can get the paladin to really get excited about his god's certain victory. Get the paladin excited about helping the god at the battle front next time (where the power's would be given in strength).
I think one could work this either way. A devastating blow to the paladin, or an opportunity to show his devotion to a powerful and growing deity. As for the resources needed... it's a paladin's job to understand he is his god's pawn. And if the god requires the resources... Be happy to serve the god.
(and the paladin is happy to be hampered)
I think one could work this either way. A devastating blow to the paladin, or an opportunity to show his devotion to a powerful and growing deity. As for the resources needed... it's a paladin's job to understand he is his god's pawn. And if the god requires the resources... Be happy to serve the god.
(and the paladin is happy to be hampered)
moritheil
First Post
daBooj said:
How does he or she know that? How does he or she know that victory is absolutely certain, that the powers will be restored or increased the next day, and that there really is nothing to worry about, without a metagame reassurance by the DM?
Paladins are devoted, perhaps even zealotous, but that does not mean they are necessarily without brains or worries. (If, in your campaign, they are, please skip the rest of this paragraph.) The DnD multiverse is full of warring deities, just as you said, but all of them have limited powers. It's pretty hard to be a cleric or paladin of a good deity without acknowledging that. It's especially hard to be a paladin out in the world - the very existence of evil has to be a continuing reminder that the power of your deity has limits. (If your deity hates evil so much that he creates an avenging order of holy knights to violently eradicate it, and his power is not limited, don't you think he would have gotten around to scouring the world of evil?) As such, since your deity has limits, simple logic dictates that there exists the chance for him to be defeated - by trickery, by an alliance of hostile deities, by unknown outside deities that arrive and contest the portfolio, etc. Even if your deity isn't defeated, can you always believe that his or her power is continually getting stronger? Don't a lot of battles fought to standstills weaken both contestants? Isn't that how war works? Aren't paladins experts in warfare out of necessity?
Furthermore, isn't a paladin supposed to be a needed soldier? Won't they be frustrated at not getting to fight where it really counts? I mean, if power had to be withdrawn from them in order to fight elsewhere, doesn't that really mean that their role in things is unimportant and that the power was better used elsewhere? Wouldn't that suck, to devote your entire life to something only to be useless at it when the time came?
Mind you, this is a stylistic thing now. If it works IYC, I'm happy for you. I personally can't see a truly RPing paladin player NOT freaking out at the sudden loss of her continuing paladin powers without a message from her deity explaining that everything was fine. (And why would she rate a message? Is she that special? Isn't she just one of thousands of paladins?) But, your world is your world, right?
IMC, a paladin's permanent powers are granted permanently, not as a temporary "charge" as spells are. (This is also the case for certain obscure nonpaladin classes such as the savants created by Laduguer, according to the 2ed material, but I digress.)
When a paladin falls from grace, those powers are actively revoked - stripped from his being - rather than simply not granted the next day. This explains why there is no "gap" in coverage for abilities such as Divine Grace or Aura of Courage. The paladin radiates the aura continuously and forevermore; it is not something that changes with the times. Falling from grace is the only reason for such things to cease.
As such, a paladin losing his or her abilities will immediately fear that he or she has somehow displeased his or her deity. Obviously, for someone devoted to their deity as a paladin is, this is just about as bad as it gets.
That's why I say that it's probably the biggest way to ruin a paladin's day.
