Handling Cheating

Not according to the dictionary:

While some are borderline for some groups (deceive by trickery; mislead; potentially the "cheat death" definition; acting dishonestly), the definition I highlighed most definitely does fit the bill of cheating. By the definition of the word, you most certainly can cheat in D&D. As always, play what you like :)
Semantics aside, the point is that if someone is breaking the rules, they don't understand the game they're playing. Fun in D&D requires low rolls as well as high ones, because it's about portraying a set of actions, not achieving a particular goal. It's natural for players to want the best for their characters, but experienced players know the randomness of the dice is part of what makes the game feel meaningful.

So my mentality here is not so much to punish the cheater, but to teach the player what the game is about. It is a situation I've dealt with myself.
 

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Semantics aside,
To be fair, you're the one who told the original poster that his definition of cheating wasn't accurate to make your point, which seems pretty semantics-oriented to me.

the point is that if someone is breaking the rules, they don't understand the game they're playing. Fun in D&D requires low rolls as well as high ones, because it's about portraying a set of actions, not achieving a particular goal. It's natural for players to want the best for their characters, but experienced players know the randomness of the dice is part of what makes the game feel meaningful.

So my mentality here is not so much to punish the cheater, but to teach the player what the game is about. It is a situation I've dealt with myself.
Yeah, this is a good point, too. I hope my reply doesn't take away from it. I definitely think this may need to be brought up, depending on how things unfold, and is definitely preferable to losing a group member whose presence you enjoy. As always, play what you like :)
 

How do you handle players who feel the need to lie about their die rolls on a fairly regular basis?

1) Make sure that you hint to the player that you are aware of the problem. This is often more effective than a direct confrontation. Typically I'll start keeping formal statistics, and then after a spell say something like, "Wow. That's like the 7th time in a row you've rolled an 18 or better for initiative." Later you might say something like, "Another 20? I'm going to have to ban that pink d20." Or you might try, "Another 20? I may have to insist you roll in a cup. Maybe plastic will insulate the dice from your phenomal cosmic luck powers."

2) Eventually, if its bad enough, you may have to confront the player directly. Make sure you've got solid evidence of the problem, and not just a hunch when you take this step, but you don't necessarily have to let the player know that you've got solid evidence. Make sure you do it privately, without involving the other players. You don't want to embarass the person involved. Instead, confront the player with something like, "John, I can't help but notice that you never seem to roll less than a 10 on the dice when you roll for initiative. At some point, this looks a lot like cheating, and while this is a game with no winners, if you cheat you're stealing spot light from your fellow players and making it harder for me to balance the game. If I think you are cheating, I'm going to cheat on behalf of the monsters by an amount equal to what I think you are doing to compensate."

I'd also rather not get into some silly cold war of escalating cheating to counteract each other, as that basically breaks one of the contracts I have with the players.

I totally understand, and a lot of the time this does make the problem worse, because its not fair to cheat against the whole party, a lot of the time it means singling out the player by having monsters attack them preferentially, or by having monsters have circumstantial bonuses to attack when attacking that PC. And I would think that the logical outcome of this would be the player cheating to retain spotlight, since in my experience most cheaters are doing so because they can't stand to ever seem to lose. They tend to be glory hounds, and ego gamers, and they just get addicted to the empowerment. There isn't anything wrong with that necessarily... right up until they start cheating and otherwise engaging in counterproductive metagaming.

So, realizing there may be no great answer I still wanted to ask, do any of you fine folks struggle with anything like this? Any creative solutions out there?

Other than the path you seem to be going down, not really. When a player does this, if they don't get the hint and aren't quickly shamed into altering their behavior (which I have seen, so don't give up hope), then there is a good chance that the problem is just going to hang around forever.
 

IRolling all dice out in the open can solve some problems. Unfortunately, it doesn't always do the trick because I've seen people blatantly lie about a die roll that others have seen. (One of the cheaters was rolling where another player could clearly see and just assumed the other player would never say anything. I know because I talked to the player sitting next to the cheater at the end of the session.)

Players can develop an 'us against them' mentality where they assume that the other players approve of the cheating because it helps them 'beat the DM'. The worst cheater I've encountered I know came from a background where the DM had DM PC's, pet villains, and himself wildly cheated in order to railroad the players and obtain the results that he wanted. So, in that context, he probably felt cheating was the only way he could be empowered. Then again, I wasn't involved with the group at that point, so it could be that all the players were cheating, and the DM's wild fudging was in fact something he adopted in defense. I can't really know.

"Bob, you used more healing potions last session than I've given out all campaign."

This gets to be a particularly hard problem to track when the players reach high level. With my low level groups, I can generally mentally track how many turns, spells, or resources a player has used in a game day. By the mid to high levels, this is really no longer possible and you are as a DM pretty much forced to rely on trust.

Give the person a chance. Some people may not know that cheating isn't allowed. One player I had commonly played video games in god mode and didn't think for a moment that fudging their die rolls was any different; it helped them enjoy the game more, so that was okay. (Though not okay with me.)

This player needs to realize that the DM is a player to - not a wish fulfillment machine. I get really frustrated by players that don't seem to realize that I'm trying to have fun as well, and that further more how they play impacts how and whether other people have fun. The problem solver in the group who gains no satisfaction unless he enjoys the process of winning is getting his fun stolen by the ego gamer that enjoys only the fruits of winning (and so enjoys cheating).

But why do these people cheat? I admit, in some cases I simply don't know. In a lot of the cases I've seen, it's because the person is either emotionally immature or has another factor going on where they just cannot stand the idea of "losing", so they have to cheat. I've also seen someone get their own self worth so wrapped up in the game (mostly because they had nothing else in their life that was giving them any self worth), that any hint of not doing well was more than they could handle.

Yeah, those are my 'ego gamers'. Oddly, they aren't always people whose self worth comes solely from the game. Sometimes they are people who are used to winning in other aspects of their life, who are frustrated by the fact that they aren't always in a dominant position at the table as well. It's just as likely in my experience to be the 30 year old CEO who made his first million at 27, who thinks that his IRL success ought to translate to fantasy domination as well.

I've also seen people cheat because they think other people at the table are cheating.

This is the biggest problem with cheating IMO, and it can wreck a group or campaign. If one player starts cheating and you don't call them on it soon, you can be pretty certain that the disease will spread to the whole group quickly. I've been in a group where they might as well not have used dice - everyone including the DM was basically rolling 20's on every throw (or at least, if not rolling a 20, then always rolling a success).

And every once in a while, I've seen someone cheat once because they had a string of really bad die rolls and just couldn't stand to have another one go wrong. It's a moment's frustration and not likely to be a regular thing, and I often just ignore it because I recognize that it's a breaking point thing and keeping the "fun" means just looking the other way this once.

For me as a DM, this is probably the biggest temptation I have, either to fudge when the NPC has had a run of really bad luck, or fudge against an NPC when a player has had a run of really bad luck. I usually regret it, because often just after I do it, the luck turns around and suddenly the players can't succeed at anything or the NPC can't fail (or both). Sometimes I still do it though, and try to justify that I'm making the game more fun. I presume most players experience the same temptation. As long as this doesn't turn into, "I'm never allowed to fail when it matters.", it's probably not a big deal.

As a side note: I do not roll my GM dice out in the open for most games, though all players at the table roll on the table where visible to others. That's because sometimes the dice get in the way of the story. Plus, some of my dice rolls are supposed to be a surprise, like searching for traps.

While I totally agree, I've found it very useful over the years to dramatically roll in the open whenever something important is at stake.

On the other hand, years ago I had to implement a magic item card system because people were forgetting what they had and because people were playing very fast and loose with the number of healing potions.

Over the years I've found playing fast and lose with the number of hit points themselves to be an even bigger problem.
 

One time I had a player that was claiming every one of his d20 rolls was a natural 20, even when I saw that his rolls were not natural 20s.

To make things amusing, I just announced in the middle of the game that he didn't have to roll any dice anymore. All his character's attacks were automatically a hit, all damage was automatically the full max, all his skill checks were automatically a success, all his saving throws were an automatic success, all enemy attacks automatically missed him, etc ... I even told him he could rewrite his entire character sheet, where all the stats were infinite.

:p
 

While I am NOT trying to tell you that you're playing wrong, I have to say that I could never let this fly in my own games. The reason is simple: If it's obvious to me, it's obvious to the other players and they can and will react to it. They might enjoy the game less, they might give the cheater grief, they might start cheating themselves. Whatever way it falls, I find it tends to hurt the game in the long run.

Of course, your playgroup and their reactions may vary.

Well first of all everyone gets to roll the same way for hit points and stats. And like I said I have never seen anyone come to me with a character's stats that make me go ummm some creative rolling was done here.

The same with hit points if people were blatantly cheating they would not say to me I rolled a 1 for my hit points this level.

I have caught players cheating on rolls in the game before both as a player and a DM. I have never narced on them. Because it happens so rarely. When I have seen it happen it is usually because they have been rolling like crap all session and it is obvious they are frustrated and not having any fun.

I myself have cheated when I felt the DM was being unfair. When it was obvious that we had no choice and he planned for us to lose. I don't know if I would cheat now knowing me now I would stand up mid game and walk out.

Unless someone is cheating all the time then it is not a big deal for me. If it happened I would talk to the player and find out why they feel the need to do it. I would wonder are they doing it because they feel I am over powering the game or they feel that their character is not as good as others and feels this is the only way to even the playing field.

If it was something like that I would look for a solution.

If it was because the person can't stand not always being successful then I would ask them to stop and if they couldn't then ask them to find another game.

I can't stand cheaters who cheat on board games or strategy games that is being totally dishonest to win taking the victory away from the person who played better.

But RPGs is a group activity it does not have winners and losers. If a player cheats on a roll to hit he is not taking victory away from another player. I suppose you could make a case he is taking something from the DM. But the DM has more power and can easily counteract the cheating by tacking on some more hit points to make up for the cheating player.

So like I said for the most part it does not bother me as a DM or a player unless it is happening all the time and impacting other people's fun at the game.
 

I'd rather not have to confront him about it, as I'm not sure how he'd take it, although I have tried a few "really, wow, how big is your bonus" type comments.

Obviously, if you don't confront him about it, he's not going to stop. If you know he's cheating, and you don't call him out for it, you implicitly give him permission to continue.

You're the DM. If you want a "no cheating" rule on your table, you need to enforce it yourself. Who else would do it for you? WotC ninjas?

As for "I'm not sure how he'd take it", well, he'd better take it like a man and promise to stop, otherwise you better get rid of him quickly.

[MENTION=1465]Li Shenron[/MENTION] and others: Punishing / killing a character for bad player behavior doesn't do anything, the player will be back to old habits as soon as his replacement is in.
 



Years and years and years ago, I had a player like this. He'd forget to tick off a hit point or an arrow from his inventory.

As a player I find this annoying. If I ever forget to remove an arrow and the DM tells me that I cheat I will probably react badly.


That said I think that if someone is cheating, maybe the DM is the cause. (Maybe in some not so obvious way)

Recently one of my players added around 1000gp in his inventory. (The other players noticed it first) I can't say he is cheating, because it is very possible he just made a mistake. If not, then this means that he feels that he has fewer loot than he should have.
 

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