Handling Cheating

[delericho]

How do you handle players who feel the need to lie about their die rolls on a fairly regular basis?

Assuming I knew (rather than just suspected) they were cheating, I would have a quiet word with the player and ask them to cut it out. If they didn't, I would then put the issue before the group, and hope that that corrected the matter. If it still didn't resolve the issue, I would ask the player to leave and not return.

I've never seen it get that far, although it's quite likely that that has been because I just don't police players' rolls much - I much prefer just to trust them.

As far as I can tell, it does not impact other people's enjoyment, except me, the GM. I'd rather not have to confront him about it, as I'm not sure how he'd take it, although I have tried a few "really, wow, how big is your bonus" type comments.

I would advise against that sort of passive-agressive sniping. If it's bothering you, confront the player. If it's not bothering you enough to have the confrontation, then forget it and move on. Because if you're expecting the player to "get the hint", he won't, and you'll just get more and more annoyed for no benefit.

I'd also rather not get into some silly cold war of escalating cheating to counteract each other, as that basically breaks one of the contracts I have with the players.

Indeed. Player problems should not have in-character solutions. If you have an issue with a player, you and the player need to deal with it.

Any creative solutions out there?

Honestly, you don't want a creative solution. The simple solution is "speak to the player, preferably in private". That's also the one most likely to yield results.

 

[S'mon]

Honestly, you don't want a creative solution. The simple solution is "speak to the player, preferably in private". That's also the one most likely to yield results.

I don't see the point of the passive-aggressive sniping, sarcastic comments et al. Personally I wouldn't deal with it in private either - it seems like a table issue to be dealt with at table; first by a "No Cheating" then by a "You can't play in my game if you're going to cheat" then by a "Get Out".

I can imagine someone who initially didn't 'get' RPGs and didn't understand that no dice-altering was allowed. No friend or person I considered a decent person would continue cheating after the first warning. They wouldn't be my friend if they did.

But, in 28 years I don't recall this ever coming up. Maybe I'm really unobservant and people are cheating without my noticing. If so, no other player has ever pointed it out, either. But I think maybe my assumption that all rolls need to be in the open and witnessable really helps remove temptation.

What I have seen is players who don't understand the rules, especially in 4e with the interaction between hit points, healing surges, temp hp, etc. But I've never seen anyone who seemed purposefully deceptive.

I suspect that a culture of cheating can arise when people start to feel that cheating is tolerated, then expected. I also suspect that fudger GMs set an example which can lead players to think it's ok to cheat: if the GM fudges to keep monsters or PCs alive, why shouldn't the players do so, too?

 

[delericho]

I don't see the point of the passive-aggressive sniping, sarcastic comments et al. Personally I wouldn't deal with it in private either - it seems like a table issue to be dealt with at table; first by a "No Cheating" then by a "You can't play in my game if you're going to cheat" then by a "Get Out".

If I were doing a general discussion of table rules (which would include "no cheating", and also things like "no smoking", etc) then I'd be happy to do that publicly.

However, once it has escalated to the point where it's a problem, and it's a problem with a single player, I would much rather handle that one-on-one in the first instance. That way, you let them know that there's an issue, without it feeling like you're calling them out in front of their friends. Tackling it head-on in front of the group risks the player responding with an angry denial, storming out, or (perhaps worst of all) proceeding with an angry accusation of another player cheating, causing the whole situation to spiral out of control.

(Whereas if you do it privately, and they respond by accusing another player, you can then promise to speak to that player, and so on in turn.)

Basically, the more people you have present, the harder the situation is to control. And an accusation of cheating is something that is best handled delicately... which means I want that control.

 

[S'mon]

Basically, the more people you have present, the harder the situation is to control. And an accusation of cheating is something that is best handled delicately... which means I want that control.

Whereas I would much rather have witnesses. IME people behave a lot worse in private than when others are watching. And if they're going to storm out, then good riddance*.

It hasn't really come up for a long time, but I have dealt with bad player behaviour (not cheating) by email before. It pretty well always results in them leaving the group. If I wanted to keep them in the group then I think I'd definitely rather deal with it at the table, where they're invested in not appearing to be a total jerk in front of other players.

*With my Scots-Irish (Ulster) blood, I tend to be fairly ornery and grudge-bearing, with a strong sense of fair play. I would generally rather lose a friend than let them get away with unacceptable behaviour.

 

[Water Bob]

As a player I find this annoying. If I ever forget to remove an arrow and the DM tells me that I cheat I will probably react badly.

If you were cheating, and I called you on it. Then, you reacted badly, I'd probably kick you out of the game.

My actions weren't meant to be nice. They were meant to stop the dude from cheating.

Of course, I wouldn't do this on a first offense. As you say, maybe the dude made a mistake. We all make 'em. But, if I suspect you, then watch you and catch you cheating, I want it stamped out. I've got a low tolerance for this.

 

[Dice4Hire]

If it is a friend at home, I would talk to him,

Someone online, I would probably boot them.

In fact I have. We roll on Invisible Castle and one guy sent me a set of rolls, but then I checked and he had done the rolls a dozen times.

I let him go.

 

[Storminator]

While I am NOT trying to tell you that you're playing wrong, I have to say that I could never let this fly in my own games. The reason is simple: If it's obvious to me, it's obvious to the other players and they can and will react to it. They might enjoy the game less, they might give the cheater grief, they might start cheating themselves. Whatever way it falls, I find it tends to hurt the game in the long run.

Of course, your playgroup and their reactions may vary.

I've recently decided this isn't my job as a DM. It's up to the other players. If they want to stop a cheater, more power to 'em! If not, who am I to complain?

Of course, I've recently decided a LOT of things aren't my job (like rulings on errata, unbalanced powers, the cosmology of the setting, when XP gets handed out. . . ) Pretty soon they aren't going to need me at all.

PS

 

[anest1s]

If you were cheating, and I called you on it. Then, you reacted badly, I'd probably kick you out of the game.

My actions weren't meant to be nice. They were meant to stop the dude from cheating.

Of course, I wouldn't do this on a first offense. As you say, maybe the dude made a mistake. We all make 'em. But, if I suspect you, then watch you and catch you cheating, I want it stamped out. I've got a low tolerance for this.

One of my DMs thinks all the time that we write down our potions/arrows wrong. (We can't forget it anyway because he reminds us everytime we use anything) He probably thinks that 1gp is too much or something.

What happens is that we have to remind him every instance we used any potion, to prove that we have the right amount (for arrows we don't bother, we just buy new ones).

I accept he is making a mistake. But, if he went on to accuse someone (me or anyone) for cheating, like you suggest, he wouldn't have to kick me out of the game. I would leave myself.

By the way, the DM is equal to the other players. Only the guy who owns the place we play has the right to decide that someone isn't welcome in his house. And that just means that we have to play somewhere else.

The DM can just refuse to DM.

 

[jasper]

creative solutions
1. Bill you are cheating. Stop or you out of my game. This is what I defaulted too before I quit gaming.
2. What is good for Bill is good for the monsters attacking Bill. This never really worked because Bill would stil cheat and then I had start tracking his hit pts.
3. Tell Bill privately that his cheating is throwing off your dming. If Bill does not straighten up go to 1.

 

[S'mon]

I've recently decided this isn't my job as a DM. It's up to the other players. If they want to stop a cheater, more power to 'em! If not, who am I to complain?

Of course, I've recently decided a LOT of things aren't my job (like rulings on errata, unbalanced powers, the cosmology of the setting, when XP gets handed out. . . ) Pretty soon they aren't going to need me at all.

PS

Yeah, as a player I'd definitely be of the opinion you weren't even attempting to do your job as DM.