Sadras
Legend
IOW, I saw my fellow gamers with rose colored glasses
Yup, pretty much this. I still generally do.
IOW, I saw my fellow gamers with rose colored glasses
I'll grant you the last point, but really, use of "terrorism" seems a bit of fear mongering. I don't see how it is useful, either in the original,linked article, or here in discussion. We can get by with simply remarking that threats of violence, or actual violence, or actions intended to cause duress (shouting, lewd remarks, &etc) are sufficient to bring in trained security personnel, e.g., police or guards. I don't think that most untrained people should handle such circumstances, except to immediately mediate if possible. In case of an already committed act, I'd try to help, but really I don't think I'd be the right person to provide council to an assault victim.
But I'm not convinced that felony behavior is a greater concern in gaming activities. Consider the example from the linked article -- being slipped a drug and being raped. The circumstance was more akin to an underage woman going to an off campus mixer. That seems a very dangerous environment. And if the up thread discussion is a guide, it was a friend that committed the assault. I don't see the very terrible outcome being gaming specific.
Where there seems more to discuss is the more nuanced issue of "soft" harassment: An in game rape scene. Unwanted attention. General verbal harassment. These are matters which are more within the purview of a typical gamer, and coachable behavior.
Thx!
Tom B
So, it's a problem. What do we do?
- Ask store owners to post & enforce no harassment policies? Don't shop at stores that don't comply?
- Ask cons to post & enforce no harassment policies? Ask for video monitoring of all public spaces? Refuse to attend if they don't?
- Create & wear no harassment t-shirts?
- What about publishers?
- Online stores?
- Make a no harassment statement at the start of any public game that you GM? Ask your GM to do the same?
- "Man up" and intercede the next time someone steps out of line?
Threats such as those were illegal long before 'terroristic' became a buzzword. But we aren't entirely talking about just death threats, battery threats (technically, a threat is already assault, so...), or rape threats, are we? And the incidence of those is far, far lower than the incidence of harassment. The scope there shows that the word is being too broadly applied.And IMHO- as well as others who have posted in this thread- the threats of rape, assault and death DO rise to the level of terrorism as designated by the writer in the title of the blog post that was the catalyst for this thread.
If I understand your point, then the pushback should be against any kind of stereotyping or harassment. I'm pretty vehement about not tolerating harassment of anyone. I'm also very willing to admit that women are far more likely to suffer harassment than other groups (in gaming, and often in other venues), and that the reason for that is largely systemic and embedded in the group dynamics of the culture (in gaming, and in other venues). HOWEVER, that recognition and acceptance in no way means that I need to turn a blind eye to stereotyping others in pursuit of the goal of reducing harassment. It does mean that the level of acknowledgement is much less -- I won't be taking any concrete actions to stop people from using such stereotypes outside of saying that their unnecessary and counterproductive. I have and do take far more concrete steps to reduce harassment of women.It is also a rhetorical sticking point for pushback.
I suppose I've never had this problem. Maybe because I wasn't a social outcast, and I wasn't bullied by none gamers. In fact, the most bullying I've ever personally suffered has been at the hands of gamers (not that I particularly cared, but they tried). To me, people are people no matter where you are. And people have a tremendous capacity to suck. And be fantastic. So I don't wear rose colored glasses about groups of people being more noble or better behaved that other groups. At best, I expect them to be people.Actually, I agree that the terroristic behavior alleged isn't a "greater concern" for our hobby, but I disagree that we don't need to talk about it. I had ZERO idea that fellow gamers threatened women in such a relentless way until GamerGate. And as I stated, I have faced very little overt racism in the hobby. I had this image of this hobby as a bit of an oasis.
IOW, I saw my fellow gamers with rose colored glasses
Probably not to the immediate perspective of the woman being harassed, no.Well, I guess it kind of boils down to why the harassment is occurring. I believe that most of it is done through ignorance, rather than straight up malicious intent. Someone telling dead baby jokes or commenting on someone's appearance. That sort of thing. The people aren't really deliberately trying to force others out of the game or the hobby, they're just ... well... stupid I guess is the best word here. Socially oblivious?
The problem, and where the notion of terrorism is coming from, is that so much of it is directed at women. From a woman's perspective, does it really matter if that guy (who, from demographics is almost always white) is just stupid or malicious? All that really matters is that guy is making someone uncomfortable to the point where they feel unwelcome. And it has to start feeling pretty pointed after a while.
So, it's a problem. What do we do?
- Ask store owners to post & enforce no harassment policies? Don't shop at stores that don't comply?
- Ask cons to post & enforce no harassment policies? Ask for video monitoring of all public spaces? Refuse to attend if they don't?
- Create & wear no harassment t-shirts?
- What about publishers?
- Online stores?
- Make a no harassment statement at the start of any public game that you GM? Ask your GM to do the same?
- "Man up" and intercede the next time someone steps out of line?
At various points upthread, people have asked if this level of harassment (especially the online threats) is just a gaming thing or if it is something common to any area in which men have dominated, and the "boy's club" is just now starting to see more women getting admission. The answer I've given has been that it is the latter. Here's an exemplar featuring "mean tweets" to female sports reporters.
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/hope-boyfriend-beats-men-read-162507278.html
Clearly, the guys are having almost as hard a time reading it aloud to them as the targets no doubt did when first they read them. So there IS hope.
It reminds me of John 3:20, "For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed." The anonymity of the Internet lets miscreants hide away. So one potential weapon in the arsenal against such behavior is exposure. If you find out who is spreading Internet poison, let others know.
I don't believe that harassing harassers is appropriate as a general principle. Exceptions exist, like counterdemonstrations.
However, if you know who the harassers are, you can change your behavior in non-harassing ways. For instance, were I to find out Internet Troll X who was sending rape threats to a female gamer of my acquaintance happened to be the car mechanic down the street, I could opt not to give him my business, same as I'd do if I found out if he were a member of the KKK.
If Internet Troll X were a guy I socialize with regularly, perhaps I'd reevaluate our friendship.