Harassment in gaming

[Umbran]

Honestly a convention should be the easiest place to get evidence.

You would think, except we have a whole lot of social inertia and misconceptions that get in the way.

There are so many people it would be very hard to harass someone for very long without someone noticing the behavior.

This is the good thing about a convention - it's not actually all that big. While GenCon and ComicCon are huge, most conventions are just a few hundred to a couple of thousand people. That means tracking reports isn't all that hard. In the case I spoke of earlier in the thread, where a lady I know got groped, after talking with her, she allowed me to report the incident. Now, the convention didn't act instantly on my report. I didn't even know the guy's name, but I had a description. They put that together with the several other reports they got about the same person, and that established a pattern of behavior, and they permanently banned him from the convention.

Bad actors don't generally restrict themselves to doing only one bad thing for an entire weekend. Especially if they don't realize that they are getting reported - they *think* they are getting away with it, so they continue, and leave a trail of events. And that's something the convention can notice.

 

[DOTTIE]

In what way did the article not address, in very specific terms, what people can do there and then? Granted, it wasn't politely phrased, but, she's pretty bloody specific about what she would like to see from the members the hobby - stand up and denounce it, don't turn a blind eye, actively act on complaints and don't just brush them off.

What more specific things could she be asking for?

And, really, that's pretty darn good advice. I mentioned the efforts of the police in London, England to stop harassment on public transportation. Here's this snippet from their front page:



Bold and underline is mine. See, right there, even the police have to state that complaints will be believed. THAT'S how little faith women have that they will get any justice. How likely do you think it is that women think that if they make a complaint about harassment at a con or a store, that they will be believed.

Or, perhaps they will just be blamed for how they dress. I guess wearing a skirt means that I want my ass grabbed. It's all my fault.

But in terms of getting someone to address a problem that is happening to someone at a future event, you have to narrow down what you want and entitle people to assess the situation in their own way. You can't force them to agree with you, or expect them to just create an incident or confrontation in its way, to speak out against someone, just because you said you want them to.

 

[DOTTIE]

Here's the part that quite a lot of people aren't getting. Women since the second wave feminism started in the 60's HAVE been bringing up harassment, talking publicly about it, and asking men to stop. It keeps happening, so yes the inflammatory blog was necessary, because women have learned that nothing gets talked about unless white men are insulted.



If this were true we wouldn't have to be talking about this.

I concur there are people who won't stop if asked to stop, but there are others who would. You should be prepared to tell someone who is bothering you they are, and see if they will stop. They might not even be aware of it.

But what really doesn't make sense to me is when you say nothing gets talked about unless white men are insulted. I don't think we want to be insulting anyone, just to get attention, and this is kind of saying the article's author is justified to do just that.

You just need to find people who will help, and people who won't hurt you and choose to play with them instead of others you don't trust or who have hurt you before (knowingly).

If you wrongfully accuse someone, and hurt them by getting them embarrassed or asked to leave, or even just given hurt feelings, you are in the wrong then.

 

[DOTTIE]

On the topic of speaking up when you see something, or calling out the harassers, it does come to mind that in online culture -- which overlaps heavily with gaming -- standing up for another person has come to be derided as "white knighting".

It's almost as if desires for retribution are so high all around, that no one wants anyone helping others make a defense.

 

[Springheel]

The apparently common "your character is being raped" scenario should have at least a half dozen witnesses. If truly none of them would come forward to corroborate the harassed person then there are several options depending on the environment.

If it is a private game you don't want to be with them anyway. They are a bunch of jerks, and it's not against the law to be jerks in private.

If it is a store then you have to talk to the owner/management. If the management backs up the jerks then you will need to take your business elsewhere. Other than that a bad Yelp review is about all you can do. Ideally you should be able to report them to the police. But unless they have a policy like London...

I agree with a lot of your post. But just to be clear, you're not suggesting that it should be a crime to include rape scenes in a game, are you?

 

[Max_Killjoy]

Here's the part that quite a lot of people aren't getting. Women since the second wave feminism started in the 60's HAVE been bringing up harassment, talking publicly about it, and asking men to stop. It keeps happening, so yes the inflammatory blog was necessary, because women have learned that nothing gets talked about unless white men are insulted.

Odd, because when I'm insulted for my gender and race (isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?), the last thing I want is to have a "meaningful discussion" with the person insulting me

 

[Lord Twig]

I agree with a lot of your post. But just to be clear, you're not suggesting that it should be a crime to include rape scenes in a game, are you?

Not specifically no. I mention it because it has been brought up that bad actors will use a "rape scene" against a female player's character as a way of trying to force her to "role-play the scene". These incidents are not made to advance a story or anything like that, they are used to try to put the player in a sexual situation. A violent sexual situation.

And honestly there is very little reason to include rape scenes in RPGs, and you certainly don't need to role-play them out. If you don't role-play your character getting mutilated or tortured, why would you role-play rape?

So, sure, in your private game you can do what you want. And there are definitely darker themes that have been explored in books, movies and other media that can be recreated in RPGs if that is what your group wants to do. But in a public place with new players or players you don't know, rape and other dark themes should be avoided.

 

[Lord Twig]

This is the good thing about a convention - it's not actually all that big. While GenCon and ComicCon are huge, most conventions are just a few hundred to a couple of thousand people. That means tracking reports isn't all that hard. In the case I spoke of earlier in the thread, where a lady I know got groped, after talking with her, she allowed me to report the incident. Now, the convention didn't act instantly on my report. I didn't even know the guy's name, but I had a description. They put that together with the several other reports they got about the same person, and that established a pattern of behavior, and they permanently banned him from the convention.

Bad actors don't generally restrict themselves to doing only one bad thing for an entire weekend. Especially if they don't realize that they are getting reported - they *think* they are getting away with it, so they continue, and leave a trail of events. And that's something the convention can notice.

And I think this is really the best that can be hoped for. It's terrible that the guy got away with it as long as he did, and more women were harassed as a consequence. But he was caught and thrown out. If this happens enough it might penetrate the social consciousness and deter future occurrences from happening.

 

[Nylanfs]

Odd, because when I'm insulted for my gender and race (isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?), the last thing I want is to have a "meaningful discussion" with the person insulting me

Are you what the author of the blog would call a terrorist, if no then why are you insulted? If you see somebody being harassed, or disturbed by what is going on around them do you politely ask the person doing the offending to stop, if yes why are you insulted?

 

[Max_Killjoy]

Are you what the author of the blog would call a terrorist, if no then why are you insulted? If you see somebody being harassed, or disturbed by what is going on around them do you politely ask the person doing the offending to stop, if yes why are you insulted?

...

Here's the part that quite a lot of people aren't getting. Women since the second wave feminism started in the 60's HAVE been bringing up harassment, talking publicly about it, and asking men to stop. It keeps happening, so yes the inflammatory blog was necessary, because women have learned that nothing gets talked about unless white men are insulted.

First, stop using the word "terrorist" to mean "person who does bad stuff I don't like". Language is a scalpel, not a bludgeon.

Second, the post I was responding to said "insulting white men", not "insulting people who do terrible things that we want to stop".