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Harassment Policies: New Allegations Show More Work To Be Done

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The specter of sexual harassment has once again risen up in tabletop gaming circles. Conventions are supposed to be places where gamers and geeks can be themselves and embrace their loves. Conventions need clear and well formulated harassment policies, and they need to enforce them. In this instance the allegations from multiple women have taken place at gaming conventions and gathering in different locations around the country. In one case, the harassment was took place over the course of years and spilled over into electronic formats.


The alleged harasser in these cases was Sean Patrick Fannon, President of Evil Beagle Games, Brand Manager for Savage Rifts at Pinnacle Entertainment Group, as well as being a game designer and developer with a long history in the tabletop role-playing industry.

There is a long and untenable policy of harassment at conventions that stretches back to science fiction and fantasy fandom in the 1960s. Atlanta's Dragon*Con has been a lightning rod in the discussions about safety at geeky conventions after one of the convention's founders was arrested and pled guilty to three charges of molestation. We have also covered reports of harassment at conventions such as Paizo Con, and inappropriate or harassing behavior by notable industry figures. It is clear that clear harassment policies and firm enforcement of them is needed in spaces where members of our community gather, in order that attendees feel safe to go about their hobby. Some companies, such as Pelgrane Press, now refuse to attend conventions where a clear harassment policy is not available.

Several women have approached me to tell me about encounters with Fannon. Some of them asked not to be named, or to use their reports for background verification only. We also reached out to Sean Patrick Fannon for his comments, and he was willing to address the allegations.

The women that I spoke with had encounters with Fannon that went back to 2013 and 2014 but also happened as recently as the summer of 2017. Each of the locations were in different parts of the country, but all of them occurred when Fannon was a guest of the event.

The worse of the two incidents related to me happened at a convention in the Eastern part of the United States. In going back over texts and messages stretching back years the woman said that it "is frustrating [now] to read these things" because of the cajoling and almost bullying approach that Fannon would use in the messages. She said that Fannon approached her at the con suite of the convention, and after speaking with her for a bit and playing a game with a group in the suite he showed her explicit photos on his cellphone of him engaged in sex acts with a woman.

Fannon's ongoing harassment of this woman would occur both electronically and in person, when they would both be at the same event, and over the course of years he would continue to suggest that she should engage in sexual acts, either with him alone, or with another woman.

Fannon denies the nature of the event, saying "I will assert with confidence that at no time would such a sharing have occurred without my understanding explicit consent on the part of all parties. It may be that, somehow, a miscommunication or misunderstanding occurred; the chaos of a party or social gathering may have created a circumstance of all parties not understanding the same thing within such a discourse. Regardless, I would not have opened such a file and shared it without believing, sincerely, it was a welcome part of the discussion (and in pursuit of further, mutually-expressed intimate interest)."

The second woman, at a different gaming-related event in another part of the country, told of how Fannon, over the course of a day at the event, asked her on four different occasions for hugs, or physical contact with her. Each time she clearly said no to him. The first time she qualified her answer with a "I don't even know you," which prompted Fannon after he saw her for a second time to say "Well, you know me now." She said that because of the multiple attempts in a short period of time that Fannon's behavior felt predatory to her. Afterwards he also attempted to connect with her via Facebook.

Afterwards, this second woman contacted the group that organized the event to share what happened and they reached out to Fannon with their concerns towards his behavior. According to sources within the organization at the time, Fannon - as with the first example - described it to the organizers as a misunderstanding on the woman's part. When asked, he later clarified to us that the misunderstanding was on his own side, saying "Honestly, I should have gotten over myself right at the start, simply owned that I misunderstood, and apologized. In the end, that's what happened, and I walked away from that with a pretty profound sense of how to go forward with my thinking about the personal space of those I don't know or know only in passing."

Both women faced ongoing pressure from Fannon, with one woman the experiences going on for a number of years after the initial convention meeting. In both cases he attempted to continue contact via electronic means with varying degrees of success. A number of screen shots from electronic conversations with Fannon were shared with me by both women.

Diane Bulkeley was willing to come forward and speak on the record of her incidents with Fannon. Fannon made seemingly innocent, and yet inappropriate comments about her body and what he wanted to do with her. She is part of a charity organization that had Fannon as a guest. What happened to her was witnessed by another woman with whom I spoke about that weekend. As Bulkeley heard some things, and her witness others, their experiences are interwoven to describe what happened. Bulkeley described this first encounter at the hotel's elevators: "We were on the floor where our rooms were to go downstairs to the convention floor. I was wearing a tank top and shirt over it that showed my cleavage. He was staring at my chest and said how much he loved my shirt and that I should wear it more often as it makes him hot. For the record I can't help my cleavage is there." Bulkeley went on to describe her mental state towards this "Paying a lady a compliment is one thing, but when you make a direct comment about their chest we have a problem."

Later on in the same day, while unloading some boxes for the convention there was another incident with Fannon. Bulkeley described this: "Well, [the witness and her husband] had to move their stuff from a friends airplane hangar (we all use as storage for cars and stuff) to a storage until next to their house. Apparently Sean, while at the hanger, made grunt noises about my tank top (it was 80 outside) while Tammy was in the truck. I did not see it. But she told me about it. Then as we were unloading the truck at the new facility Sean kept looking down my shirt and saying I have a great view etc. Her husband said to him to knock it off. I rolled my eyes, gave him a glare and continued to work. I did go and put on my event day jacket (light weight jacket) to cover up a little."

The witness, who was in the truck with Fannon, said that he "kept leering down at Diane, glancing down her shirt and making suggestive sounds." The witness said that Fannon commented "'I'm liking the view from up here.'"

Bulkeley talked about how Fannon continued his behavior later on in a restaurant, having dinner with some of the guests of the event. Fannon made inappropriate comments about her body and embarrassed her in front of the other, making her feel uncomfortable throughout the dinner.

Bulkeley said that Fannon also at one point touched her hair without asking, and smelled it as well. "[Fannon] even would smell my long hair. He begged me to not cut it off at a charity function that was part of the weekend's event." She said that he also pressed his pelvis tightly against her body while hugging her. These incidents occurred at a convention during the summer of 2017.

Fannon denies these events. "The comments and actions attributed to me simply did not happen; I categorically and absolutely deny them in their entirety."

When asked for comment, and being informed that this story was being compiled Fannon commented "I do not recall any such circumstance in which the aftermath included a discourse whereby I was informed of distress, anger, or discomfort." He went on to say "The only time I recall having ever been counseled or otherwise spoken to about my behavior in such matters is the Gamers Giving/Total Escape Games situation discussed above. The leader of the organization at that time spoke to me specifically, asked me to be aware that it had been an issue, and requested I be aware of it in the future. It was then formally dropped, and that was the end of it until this time."

There were further reports; however, we have respected the wishes of those women who asked to remain anonymous for fear of online harassment. In researching this article, I talked to multiple women and other witnesses.

About future actions against the alleged behaviors he also said "It is easy, after all, to directly attack and excise obviously predatory and harassing behavior. It is much more difficult to point out and correct behavior that falls within more subtle presentations, and it's more difficult to get folks to see their actions as harmful when they had no intention to cause harm, based on their assumptions of what is and isn't appropriate. It's good for us to look at the core assumptions that lead to those behaviors and continue to challenge them. That's how real and lasting change within society is achieved."

Fannon's weekly column will no longer be running on E.N. World.

Have you suffered harassment at the hands of someone, industry insider or otherwise, at a gaming convention? If you would like to tell your story, you can reach out to me via social media about any alleged incidents. We can speak confidentially, but I will have to know the identity of anyone that I speak with.

This does open up the question of: At what point do conventions become responsible for the actions of their guest, when they are not more closely scrutinizing the backgrounds of those guests? One woman, who is a convention organizer, with whom I spoke for the background of this story told me that word gets around, in the world of comic conventions, when guests and creators cause problems. Apparently this is not yet the case in the world of tabletop role-playing game conventions, because there are a growing number of publishers and designers who have been outed for various types of harassing behavior, but are still being invited to be guest, and in some cases even guests of honor, at gaming conventions around the country. The message that this sends to women who game is pretty clear.

More conventions are rolling out harassment policies for guests and attendees of their conventions. Not only does this help to protect attendees from bad behavior, but it can also help to protect conventions from bad actors within the various communities that gather at our conventions. As incidents of physical and sexual harassment are becoming more visible, it becomes more and more clear that something needs to be done.

additional editorial contributions by Morrus
 

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kenmarable

Explorer
You first. That joke has gotten old.
I'm glad you consider her safety a joke.

I'm hoping to take my teenage daughters to their first convention this year. Can I have your legal name, address, social security number and a clear and recent picture of you, please?
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Sexual Harassment goes all ways people. female to male, male to female, male to male, female to female, higher rank to lower, lower rank to higher.
Sometimes what is someone’s joke it another harassment, aka depends on the receiver.
Sometimes a joke is a harassment.
I always take the report with a grain of salt and research both sides before I judge. Harassment does not need to meet the legal requirement to be corrected.
 

Advilaar

Villager
The bolded... This type of statement implies that if something negative were to happen, the cosplayer instigated the approach with the magnetic power of their boobs.
It is still the guy's fault if he does something inappropriate. Remember the first 3 letters of "assume". It makes that out of "u" and "me".

By removing that, you remove any even remote reason to view this person sexually.

Most trade conventions do not let you go around scantily clad. Nor do they let you dress like that unless you are selling the outfits themselves - and only in your booth.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
I'm glad you consider her safety a joke.

I'm hoping to take my teenage daughters to their first convention this year. Can I have your legal name, address, social security number and a clear and recent picture of you, please?
The first time, second time, third time, that reply is serious and makes a point. After that, it becomes a joke. No you can have my ssn because I know you will do illegal stuff with them. And you don't need the ssn to make a complaint to the con or law enforcement. So send me a picture of your family so if I do see at a con I can run away from a possible nutter family.
 

kenmarable

Explorer
That is the reason you change the environment. It is much simpler than

You get rid of the room parties, the booze, and have a sensible dress code you eliminate the environment which breeds the behavior you do not want. If someone actually DOES do something, you intervene like you would anyone doing anything at your event. You ask them nicely to leave. If they do not leave, you have security escort them out. If it is especially egregious, you permaban him and any company he may represent.

Realize that, unfortunately, whenever you have drunk, single people of both genders it also attracts men that look for prey. If they do not get it there, they go elsewhere. Even communities with sex as a theme, like BDSM or poly communities have issues with higher numbers of predators because they at least seem like places a predator would enjoy.

By eliminating the proper hunting grounds, the predators must seek better hunting grounds. Let those people deal with it. Much easier than massive social engineering projects (with some very Orwellian things coming from the fringes)

Win-Win. Games get played, no ideologies, no hooking up, no distraction, just games!
Did you read my post?

Conventions that don't have room parties still have harassment.

Conventions with sensible dress codes still have harassment.

It is NOT because of room parties and lack of dress codes that harassment happens. It is from men being harassers.

Alright, let's back up.

Sexual harassment isn't just the vile Harvey Weinstein's of the world. The "predators" you mention. Yes, they exist, and need to be stopped. But do you think that's the extent of the problem? Eliminate the predators and women will feel safe? (Or as you say "the predators must seek better hunting grounds. Let those people deal with it." which I won't even touch because thinking that someone else being harassed or assaulted rather than you is an actual solution to the problem is some cold-hearted, unproductive thinking.)

Anyway, do you think these predators are the extent of the problem? Sorry, but they aren't.

The majority of sexual harassment, the overwhelming majority that women like RedJenOSU mentions weighs upon her every time she goes out in public, isn't just the Harvey Weinsteins or other predators that deserve to be in jail. It's ordinary men like us that are either clueless to the harm our actions cause or think it's not that big of a deal or that we can get away with it/it's worth the risk. Everyday actions many of us men never notice are sexual harassment that women have to put up with everyday.

Getting rid of room parties and cosplay isn't going to address those. Scientific conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Tech industry conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Academic conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Every sort of business convention has sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. As I already said, conventions without room parties and cosplay have the exact same harassment problems.

Conventions without room parties and cosplay have the exact same harassment problems.
 

Jeanneliza

Villager
For the record, what I believe you are referring to as "willingness to live with discomfort" is personal discomfort. Women live with this state practically 100% of the time we move outside our homes, play online games, or engage in a hot button topic on the internet. I'm not kidding; even in this space, I had to consider whether or not it was worth the risk to engage. If you think Afrodyte is joking, please consider the backlash that happened during GamerGate.

From the standpoint of "I'm willing to make someone else uncomfortable." and wondering just how much women are willing to tolerate, we've been tolerating for the sake of getting along and being part of the RPG community to this point. Our tolerance is high, but we are tired, and we no longer believe the fairy tale that letting things pass for the sake of avoiding conflict will lead to improvement as more people are included. Society is changing and we now have some support to make our frustrations and fears heard. It remains to be seen if people will hear us, then try to continue with the status quo or work with us to define a new set of collectively supported social norms.

As female gamer, I'm asking male gamers to voluntarily take on part of the personal discomfort burden that female gamers have been carrying alone.
Just this.

You may have noticed only THREE women have stayed with this thread. I happen to know quite a few more are following it. Like RedJen and Afrodyte, I spent time pondering whether engaging here was worth the risk, even the lesser risk of engaging online instead of face to face. And we have noticed the difference between those honestly engaging and considering our points, and those intent on twisting those points to fit their own warped view or what women mean.
We have sat through comments on semantics, parsing our words for every hidden potential evidence that we have a secret man-hating agenda, and are not simply trying to educate the gender that does not share our risks on what we do DAILY to manage those risks. That some of that management includes avoiding events like those described.

For instance, the debate on the offensiveness of the term lady. To truly parse this we must first discuss the difference between connotative and denotative meaning of words. The denotative meaning of the word lady is a reference to a rank of nobility. Period.
The second denotative meaning refers to comporting ourselves in a manner of a woman of noble rank.
And from there we devolve to connotative meanings. Some are more innocuous than others, but they all carry the same inference, an expectation that our words and behavior conform to a certain standard established for women of noble rank. And that there are implied consequences if we fail to live up to that standard.
Now I am an old lady, there are few words left that truly offend me at the core. But years of working with cops, construction workers, male engineers, and so on I have built up some pretty hardened defenses. When I DO push back over certain terms it is more about expanding awareness to protect those who have not had the life experiences to build up my level of defenses.
Now frankly, because of life experience I can actually curse more readily than quite a few guys I know (yeah when playing a lady pirate I swear like a sailor). Something that amazes me though is if I do let rip, how many MEN ARE OFFENDED. Too often the response if "well that was pretty crude" or "Not very ladylike". I noted before I ain't no lady. But I also understand situational awareness.
I would never speak like that in a uni ethics class taught by a nun. (Yes I had such a class). I also police myself around men I don't know well and I expect would get all the wrong signals if I do speak in such a manner. I am more than willing to defer to the expected standard of speech and behavior in any given situation.
We have asked that men be equally aware, show the same deference and concern for how their words and actions are perceived by those around them, including that you may be perceived as a potential threat. In doing so there are those who clearly think we are being unreasonable or have some hidden political agenda.
If women needing to keep themselves safe is a political agenda and not a simple basic human right, I suggest that it is men forcing it to become so.
 

kenmarable

Explorer
Most trade conventions do not let you go around scantily clad. Nor do they let you dress like that unless you are selling the outfits themselves - and only in your booth.
And most trade conventions still have problems with sexual harassment!!!

What women wear has NOTHING to do with sexual harassment.
 

Afrodyte

Villager
The first time, second time, third time, that reply is serious and makes a point. After that, it becomes a joke. No you can have my ssn because I know you will do illegal stuff with them. And you don't need the ssn to make a complaint to the con or law enforcement. So send me a picture of your family so if I do see at a con I can run away from a possible nutter family.
You seem upset. Are you sure you're not just being hysterical and blowing innocent comments out of proportion?
 

lowkey13

Exterminate all rational thought
You seem upset. Are you sure you're not just being hysterical and blowing innocent comments out of proportion?
Long thread. Catching up.

I'm just going to point this out; as much as I hate to agree with @jasper in this thread, he has a point here.

I really hate trolls. I hate the trolls that invaded this thread (and if you read them before they were deleted, you know what I'm talking about).

But I also don't like trolls even if they happen to agree with my point of view. What you are doing is trolling. You might think it is cute, or funny, or that the ends justify the means, or that it is completely appropriate given the number of evil, misogynistic trolls that have flooded this thread.

It's not.

For you to repeatedly make the same comment, asking for social security numbers, and to implicitly call people that disagree with you harassers, is a form of harassment. This latest comment that I have quoted is pure trolling. If you had been making those comments to me, I would have reported you for harassment; asking for people's social security numbers on an on-line forum is never appropriate.

There are a lot of good, interesting, and substantive things people have said on this thread. Because of the subject matter, things will probably get a little heated. Don't be a troll.

That's all.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
You seem upset. Are you sure you're not just being hysterical and blowing innocent comments out of proportion?
hmm maybe. maybe a little bit. a little bit more. Jasper hands start spread.ing Hmm. Maybe yes. SON OF A beep. Jasper just knock the picture of the wall because his arms were so extend.
and JASPER gets Snarky on regular occasions. If you think jasper is serious roll a %. On 01-90. Not serious. 91-98 Snarky. 99-00 serious. We now take you back to your regular programing.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
OK. ALSO [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] said about SSN. That is over the top but not harassment. But I work in a field dealing with SSN. My firewall/email filters are so tight I sometimes can not download stuff in unsecured fiction documents because the ship name or planet name/number comes close to looking like SSN's,
 

Afrodyte

Villager
Long thread. Catching up.

I'm just going to point this out; as much as I hate to agree with @jasper in this thread, he has a point here.

I really hate trolls. I hate the trolls that invaded this thread (and if you read them before they were deleted, you know what I'm talking about).

But I also don't like trolls even if they happen to agree with my point of view. What you are doing is trolling. You might think it is cute, or funny, or that the ends justify the means, or that it is completely appropriate given the number of evil, misogynistic trolls that have flooded this thread.

It's not.

For you to repeatedly make the same comment, asking for social security numbers, and to implicitly call people that disagree with you harassers, is a form of harassment. This latest comment that I have quoted is pure trolling. If you had been making those comments to me, I would have reported you for harassment; asking for people's social security numbers on an on-line forum is never appropriate.

There are a lot of good, interesting, and substantive things people have said on this thread. Because of the subject matter, things will probably get a little heated. Don't be a troll.

That's all.
I appreciate the intent behind this post, and I'll stop asking for SSNs, and I won't ask the same person twice. And if Morrus wants me to knock it off entirely, I'll stop.

Yet, I find it interesting that my fairly benign statements showing that I don't automatically trust every self-proclaimed good dude are getting more heat than some of the deeply unsettling things several posters have been saying in the past 15 pages I've been participating on this thread.

If you really think that an exaggerated demonstration of the daily precautions I have to take to avoid harassment and assault is unfairly blaming poor, innocent men who are just trying to have a discussion, you haven't been paying attention to what several women and men have been saying on this thread, and you are not on my side (whatever being on my side supposedly means), and it all of it sustains and supports the structural dynamics that allow harassment and assault to continue and thrive in environments where people are supposed to be safe.
 

Advilaar

Villager
Did you read my post?

Conventions that don't have room parties still have harassment.

Conventions with sensible dress codes still have harassment.

It is NOT because of room parties and lack of dress codes that harassment happens. It is from men being harassers.

Alright, let's back up.

Sexual harassment isn't just the vile Harvey Weinstein's of the world. The "predators" you mention. Yes, they exist, and need to be stopped. But do you think that's the extent of the problem? Eliminate the predators and women will feel safe? (Or as you say "the predators must seek better hunting grounds. Let those people deal with it." which I won't even touch because thinking that someone else being harassed or assaulted rather than you is an actual solution to the problem is some cold-hearted, unproductive thinking.)

Anyway, do you think these predators are the extent of the problem? Sorry, but they aren't.

The majority of sexual harassment, the overwhelming majority that women like RedJenOSU mentions weighs upon her every time she goes out in public, isn't just the Harvey Weinsteins or other predators that deserve to be in jail. It's ordinary men like us that are either clueless to the harm our actions cause or think it's not that big of a deal or that we can get away with it/it's worth the risk. Everyday actions many of us men never notice are sexual harassment that women have to put up with everyday.

Getting rid of room parties and cosplay isn't going to address those. Scientific conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Tech industry conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Academic conventions have sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. Every sort of business convention has sexual harassment problems they are publicly dealing with. As I already said, conventions without room parties and cosplay have the exact same harassment problems.

Conventions without room parties and cosplay have the exact same harassment problems.
Exactly my point.

Yes, business cons still may have some harassment. But you do it there and get known, you get punished hardcore unless you are the president of the place, but wealth inequity is another tale for another time.

I am not a sociologist, but I guarantee that whenever you get drunk guys and gals together, there IS going to A LOT more issues than otherwise. Eliminate that, you get what you want, mostly.

It is a far easier task to make your place less attractive to predators than it is for massive societal change. A lofty goal, yes. Bad they go somewhere else? Yes. But, the predators that gradually have no place to go either evolve or die out. Until then, the only way you really can not get rid of all of them with THAT world view is you go full nuke and do something like ban all hetero males or something. No one in their right mind would do that. I am sure some of the more radical would advocate that, though. Some may even pay for it.
 

lowkey13

Exterminate all rational thought
I appreciate the intent behind this post, and I'll stop asking for SSNs, and I won't ask the same person twice. And if Morrus wants me to knock it off entirely, I'll stop.

Yet, I find it interesting that my fairly benign statements showing that I don't automatically trust every self-proclaimed good dude are getting more heat than some of the deeply unsettling things several posters have been saying in the past 15 pages I've been participating on this thread.

If you really think that an exaggerated demonstration of the daily precautions I have to take to avoid harassment and assault is unfairly blaming poor, innocent men who are just trying to have a discussion, you haven't been paying attention to what several women and men have been saying on this thread, and you are not on my side (whatever being on my side supposedly means), and it all of it sustains and supports the structural dynamics that allow harassment and assault to continue and thrive in environments where people are supposed to be safe.
Your attempts at trolling me do not work.

Let me be clear; I have nothing to prove to you, or to anyone, regarding my bona fides.

Your statements were not fairly benign.

You can trust who you want to; to the extent you wish to use the same tactics and rhetoric that is employed by people that I disagree with, then I will disagree with you.
 

Afrodyte

Villager
If I had to summarize this thread, it would be:
  1. A whole lot of men arguing with a handful of women about whether women are justified in being cautious or mistrustful of men we don't know.
  2. A whole lot of men arguing with other men about whether women are justified in being cautious or mistrustful of men we don't know.
Maybe a handful of men asking women, "What are some behaviors that make you feel unsafe around men in a convention environment?" and actually listening to our responses.

Maybe a handful of men asking women, "How can we as a community create an environment where women feel and are safe?" and actually listening to our responses.

And like I said, I find it interesting that more men are annoyed by my cheeky way of responding to some fairly alarming things some guys are saying in this thread than with the fact that the majority of them I responded to that way hit Creeper Bingo without even trying. If you're "on my side" and serious about being a "male ally," that is what should concern you.

What should concern you is that these attitudes and behaviors are so commonplace that I've flat-out stopped trying to engage meaningfully with the ones who express them, and went straight into, "OK, let me just give this one a wide berth if I ever met them in person."

If you care about women's safety, the fact that I've done that repeatedly on this thread should be deeply disconcerting to you.

Yeah, I'm laughing at it. But it's a laughter to keep from crying because even the good ones don't get it.
 
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kenmarable

Explorer
Your attempts at trolling me do not work.

Let me be clear; I have nothing to prove to you, or to anyone, regarding my bona fides.

Your statements were not fairly benign.

You can trust who you want to; to the extent you wish to use the same tactics and rhetoric that is employed by people that I disagree with, then I will disagree with you.
Ok, I can see repeating that question as possibly being trolling (or you could see it as a look into the unrelenting caution women have to constantly be thinking about).

That being said, what in the heck was any of her well-stated reply trolling you??? Calling your bona fides into question???

It. Is. Not. About. You. Or. Your. Feelings.

I'm pretty sure that was stated several pages ago.

And several pages before that.
 

Afrodyte

Villager
Your attempts at trolling me do not work.

Let me be clear; I have nothing to prove to you, or to anyone, regarding my bona fides.

Your statements were not fairly benign.

You can trust who you want to; to the extent you wish to use the same tactics and rhetoric that is employed by people that I disagree with, then I will disagree with you.
What exactly do you want here?

If my response bothers you so much, the ignore function is right there. What are you trying to get from me?
 

Sadras

Explorer
Yet, I find it interesting that my fairly benign statements showing that I don't automatically trust every self-proclaimed good dude are getting more heat than some of the deeply unsettling things several posters have been saying in the past 15 pages I've been participating on this thread.
That is a curious statement. The last 15 pages have been relatively mild compared to what had been posted before where Morrus got involved several times. As for you getting heat more than the trolls, citation needed. I'm not seeing any evidence of what you're claiming, especially given the XP count which equates to support.

If you really think that an exaggerated demonstration of the daily precautions I have to take to avoid harassment and assault is unfairly blaming poor, innocent men who are just trying to have a discussion, you haven't been paying attention to what several women and men have been saying on this thread, and you are not on my side (whatever being on my side supposedly means), and it all of it sustains and supports the structural dynamics that allow harassment and assault to continue and thrive in environments where people are supposed to be safe.
So if @Morrus told you to stop he would not be on your side and he you be sustaining and supporting the structural dynamics that allow harassment and assault to continue and thrive in this environment so you won't feel safe?

Furthermore why does your need to feel safe trump anybody else's need to feel safe in this environment?
 
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