Harniacs vs. d20/D&D players

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I agree Kaptain.

Anyone who agrees with me can't be all bad!

 

[Shadow of Bukrai]

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Ok, first off, I am also a member of the Hârn Forum.

Falstaff wrote:
"The people there, once they discovered I also played D&D/d20 roleplaying games, started bashing me."

It wasn't like that exactly. First, Falstaff, quite innocently, I thought, made a post about running a certain type of Hârn campaign before the current timeline. Nothing wrong there. Someone else made responded in what veterans knew was a joking manner that Falstaff's idea was 'Epic Hârn', which is something that a few Hârn folks view with disdain. Someone else (one of those that think 'Epic Hârn' is dumb) made another vaguely negative comment and Falstaff got defensive and pretty much told the guy to F*@k off. And then he made another trolling post that he knew would piss these guys off and, well, sure enough, it did and they responded in kind. There were at least two of us trying to put out the flames, but Falstaff kept slinging back direct insults and any hope of getting things calmed down went out the window. They didn't bash Falstaff because he plays D&D/D20. They bashed him because he was goaded (I thought) by a few individuals into making very rude posts. I don't place blame here, just calling it like I see it.

Falstaff's assertion that HârnMaster players don't like D20ers/D&Ders is a false blanket statement. The truth of it is that some HârnMaster players don't like D20ers/D&Ders. In the case of Falstaff, it was one in particular and two somewhat peripherally. I, myself, play HârnMaster and prefer it over D&D for Hârn. However, I am also a defender of D20 in the Hârn online community and my D20 Hârn Guide at www.nine.addr.com is a testament to my benevolence towards D20/D&D. There a number of other Hârniacs who use D20, or some variant of D&D (1st Ed, 2nd Ed, whatever) with Hârn.

Yes, it's true that there is an element of elitism in the Hârn community. I suspect this is true of most any game world or game system, especially small, niche games like Hârn and HârnMaster. The vast majority of the Hârn community, though, do not overly share this 'elitism'. It's just a very few of them. Unfortunately, they are often the most vocal of the lot. In fact, I'll probably get some ribbing and pestering for this post (I see you guys!) from them.

 

[Aaron L]

Sorry, but sounds boring. I can be broke and powerless in real life, I don't need a game for that. Stick to closely to 12th century Europe and all the game will be is trudging through mud until you get sick and die. And if there is magic and monsters in it, there have better be some dang good reasons that it stays like 12th century Europe

That's just me, though.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

No it's not. Not anywhere close. It can't be, since it's a game setting, and doesn't contain all the pesky non-fictional characters that the real world is full of.

(Sorry - while Harn isn't my cup of tea, I don't have anything against it. I just found that statement unbelievably silly.)

LOL. Have you read Harn? It covers tectonic plate movements, ocean currents, prevailing wind patterns, etc. And every village has every unimportant peasant detailed out! Plus, there are lullabies, oaths, curses, prayers, songs, commerce and transaction guides, the inner workings of guilds, ale and bread recipes, beekeeping lore, and all manner of detail in just about every mundane subject. Now that's a level of detail unseen in any other game!

 

[tsadkiel]

LOL. Have you read Harn? It covers tectonic plate movements, ocean currents, prevailing wind patterns, etc. And every village has every unimportant peasant detailed out! Plus, there are lullabies, oaths, curses, prayers, songs, commerce and transaction guides, the inner workings of guilds, ale and bread recipes, beekeeping lore, and all manner of detail in just every mundane subject. Now that's a level of detail unseen in any other game!

That makes it detailed. It doesn't make it "as complex and alive as the real world." It doesn't even make it as complex and alive as the Junior High I went to.

 

[Numion]

Harn is as complex and alive as the real world. If you want a gritty, fantasy simulation as close to 12th century earth as possible (but still with a few monsters and magics), Harn is your ticket to ride, baby.

Could I play a game where the players are all farmers in Harn? (No, I don't mean famrers who are sucked into adventure, but farmers who are suckered into farming!. Or a game where they all die of the plague would be cool. And realistic.

Do I want that because I'm intelligent, or does playing Harn make people intelligent? Which was it with you, KK?

 

[Falstaff]

See, this was my master plan all along, I just had to make enemies to get here. My plan? To get Harn and HarnMaster talked about on these d20 boards.
HarnMaster and HarnWorld are the best roleplaying materials on the market. End of story.

PS: I may be grasping at straws with this approach, but it is a 'lil funny, no?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

That makes it detailed. It doesn't make it "as complex and alive as the real world." It doesn't even make it as complex and alive as the Junior High I went to.

Ouch! Okay, you have a point. Junior High sucked in a way that trudging through endless fields of mud only to die of disease or starvation instead of arrows or claws never could...

 

[Hand of Evil]

Harn is a speciality game, it attracts a group of people that just can't be happy with D&D, or maybe D&d can't make them happy.

Harn is not the only one, there are a lot of them. I am that way about Earthdawn (the greatest RGP ever!). People are looking for that 'thing' that makes them happy, we are creatures of habit and we really don't like change. What we don't understand, we fear or hate. It is that simple.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Could I play a game where the players are all farmers in Harn? (No, I don't mean famrers who are sucked into adventure, but farmers who are suckered into farming!. Or a game where they all die of the plague would be cool. And realistic.

Do I want that because I'm intelligent, or does playing Harn make people intelligent? Which was it with you, KK?

Yes, you could play a game where everyone was farmers and only farming and everyday life related events happened to the players. Harn gives you the ability to do that if you want, in a way that no other game world can. By the same token, Harn makes it much easier for a farmer turned adventurer to come from an incredibly rich and detailed background of friends and family, in a complex society where every action has a realistic consequence.