Has any RPG ever done grappling well? At all?

[Morrus]

I'd like to be able to break limbs, choke folks out either unconscious or to death. Ya know, the works. It doesn't need to have it all, but in a dream world it could.

That would make it vastly superior to the use of swords, staffs, and bows, neither of which allow you to chop off limbs or knock someone out.

I'd be wary of a grappliing system which allowed the player to be far more effective than a master swordsman is. If you allow grapplers to break limbs and choke people out, you need to allow swordsmen to chop off arms or bowmen to snipe people in the eye.

 

[Nagol]

That would make it vastly superior to the use of swords, staffs, and bows, neither of which allow you to chop off limbs or knock someone out.

I'd be wary of a grappliing system which allowed the player to be far more effective than a master swordsman is. If you allow grapplers to break limbs and choke people out, you need to allow swordsmen to chop off arms or bowmen to snipe people in the eye.

In HERO, you can buy the martial arts to work with a weapon of your choice. It's a great way to build experienced skillful fencers.

 

[Crothian]

Ninja's and Susperspies has a pretty good martial art system that allows for a lot of different moves and styles.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't know if I would classify GURPS as "not cumbersome", personally.

I would definitely classify GURPS as non-cumbersome. In fact, if you want detailed grappling rules, I can't think of anything else that comes close in efficient simplicity. GURPS is the original unified core mechanic plus modular add-ons game system, way before d20.

 

[Umbran]

GURPS is the original unified core mechanic plus modular add-ons game system, way before d20.

"Unified core mechanic" and "ease of use" are not synonymous, especially when you start talking about the interactions of modular add-ons.

Yes, if you strip GURPS down to its bare basics, combat isn't too bad. It is by no means the smoothest around, but neither is it the worst. But, at least in my personal experience, once you add bells and whistles (like, say, detailed grappling), the complexity and clumsiness ramp up very quickly. YMMV.

 

[Janx]

That would make it vastly superior to the use of swords, staffs, and bows, neither of which allow you to chop off limbs or knock someone out.

I'd be wary of a grappliing system which allowed the player to be far more effective than a master swordsman is. If you allow grapplers to break limbs and choke people out, you need to allow swordsmen to chop off arms or bowmen to snipe people in the eye.

I agree with this. grappling needs to be balance to equivalent outcomes as regular melee options and magic/skill options.

At one of the martial arts camps I went to, we had a session with an expert at ground fighting. At its basics, I learned how to simply hold you down, so you can't get up, and how to maneuver myself while prone, so I was at reduced risk AND had the ability to trip and attack you from my back.

the hard styles of martial arts (kicking and punching) are easy to model the same as attacking with weapons.

The fuzzy stuff are the effects of the soft styles.
I can pin/immobilize/hold you.
I can injure you in a way that disables a limb (penalty to-hit?)
I can trip you (rules for that)
I can keep fighting while prone (being prone has no/little effect)
I can knock somebody out (sleep spell)

Just to name a few.

Historically, real fighters also know how to grapple. Boys are always wrestling. Men wrestle for sport. And all fights almost always end up on the ground. So medieval swordsman, probably knew more about grappling somebody than using a sword (an exageration, perhaps variable by level)

 

[pawsplay]

"Unified core mechanic" and "ease of use" are not synonymous, especially when you start talking about the interactions of modular add-ons.

"3d6 roll-under, with situational modifiers" is pretty synonymous with ease of use. I was able to self-teach GURPS when I was 12, and I have never had trouble teaching it to anyone.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ditto HERO: everything works the same way.

The only thing that gets funky/complicated is when certain maneuvers- those that are passing strikes of some kind- have you figure in your velocity. But since that would normally be part of the RW equation, you don't get too grumpy about it.

BTW, Speedsters with martial arts training in HERO are naaaasty.

 

[Glade Riven]

Pathfinder reduces it to a Combat Maneuver roll, which makes it about as intricate as swinging a sword. Simple, yes. Good? It works for my purposes, but milage may vary.

Wasn't there a D20 WWE book? Dunno if the system was any good or not.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I have simple house rule for grappling that seems to work well:

If you attempt a grapple, your character spontaneously combusts.