D&D General Has D&D abandoned the "martial barbarian"?

[Neonchameleon]

Right, but whether that is enough is sort of what the thread is about, isn't it? The only "waggling" the "magic" barbarians do is smashing, and the only magic words they use are "angry yell", but they still cause "magical/supernatural/otherwordly" effects to happen.

But you've switched from fighter to barbarian - and even then not all barbarians do that.

At least not unless you can watch your average James Bond or Jackie Chan movie and say "they're doing things most people can't, therefore magic".

 

[Northern Phoenix]

But you've switched from fighter to barbarian - and even then not all barbarians do that.

At least not unless you can watch your average James Bond or Jackie Chan movie and say "they're doing things most people can't, therefore magic".

This thread is about Barbarians, but in either case, the "non-spellcasting-magic" of the various Barbarian subclasses, or Fighter subclasses like Echo Knight and Rune Knight, as well as the boatloads of supernatural powers either can get in 4e, go quite far beyond that.

In 5e, Fighter has more "non-magical" subclasses that actually don't use supernatural powers as commonly understood, such as cavalier, samurai, champion, battlemaster, purple dragon, and so on, while Barbarian has comparatively few, and has comparatively many "magical" ones such as totem warrior, storm herald, beast/mutant, wild magic, and so on.

 

[Scott Christian]

In 5e, Fighter has more "non-magical" subclasses that actually don't use supernatural powers as commonly understood, such as cavalier, samurai, champion, battlemaster, purple dragon, and so on, while Barbarian has comparatively few, and has comparatively many "magical" ones such as totem warrior, storm herald, beast/mutant, wild magic, and so on.

And I suppose this is kind of where I lean. It seems many of the 5e barbarian subclasses are magical, and even the ones that aren't, contain a hint. I just don't see the barbarian that way. I am sure it is all based on our experiences playing, books we read, and shows we have watched. But, it seems like WotC could do a bit better job at creating martial types, especially the barbarian, without having to rely on magic.

 

[le Redoutable]

So, are barb illiterate?

 

[Minigiant]

And I suppose this is kind of where I lean. It seems many of the 5e barbarian subclasses are magical, and even the ones that aren't, contain a hint. I just don't see the barbarian that way. I am sure it is all based on our experiences playing, books we read, and shows we have watched. But, it seems like WotC could do a bit better job at creating martial types, especially the barbarian, without having to rely on magic.

And even if the barbarian subclasses are more magical, their actions could emphasize strength and toughness and not magical auras and circling spirits.

The Incredible Hulk has well known superpowers,but they are super strength and increased toughness not energy fists.

More Green Hulk. Less Red Hulk.

 

[teitan]

It's gotten more... Diablo for sure.

 

[teitan]

Hiccup, whoops

 

[Staffan]

And even if the barbarian subclasses are more magical, their actions could emphasize strength and toughness and not magical auras and circling spirits.

The Incredible Hulk has well known superpowers,but they are super strength and increased toughness not energy fists.

More Green Hulk. Less Red Hulk.

Thing is, once you have the Hulk barbarian, you don't really need another Hulk barbarian. So if you want variety, you need to look in other directions.

 

[Minigiant]

Thing is, once you have the Hulk barbarian, you don't really need another Hulk barbarian. So if you want variety, you need to look in other directions.

No one is asking for another Hulk barbarian.

The point is that there are more aspect of barbarian physicality other than frenzy.

The barbarian is Strong, Fast, and Tough. Put them in pairs and you have 3 barbarian subtypes right there Strong/Tough, Strong/Fast, Fast/Tough.

Then there are elements of Super Strength, Super Speed, and Super Toughness than D&D doesn't explore. You can make the barbarian who can one hand a greataxe during rage. Or make a barbarian that runs as fast as monks. Or skin like steel and hands like claws.

 

[Staffan]

No one is asking for another Hulk barbarian.

The point is that there are more aspect of barbarian physicality other than frenzy.

The barbarian is Strong, Fast, and Tough. Put them in pairs and you have 3 barbarian subtypes right there Strong/Tough, Strong/Fast, Fast/Tough.

Then there are elements of Super Strength, Super Speed, and Super Toughness than D&D doesn't explore. You can make the barbarian who can one hand a greataxe during rage. Or make a barbarian that runs as fast as monks. Or skin like steel and hands like claws.

But a lot of that is already represented in the Totem Warrior. Skin like steel? Bear totem barbarians get resistance to all non-psychic damage. Speed? Elk totem barbarians add 15 ft to their speed while raging, on top of their basic speed increase which makes them faster than equal-level monks up to 13th level. And strength is a core part of the barbarian, which is why a raging barbarian gets a damage bonus and advantage on Strength saves and checks.

Now, one might argue that these benefits are inadequate compared to the flashier benefits other barbarians get. But you're not likely to see anything that's strictly better.

You probably won't see barbarians one-hand greataxes though, because that would be a significant defensive upgrade (allowing a shield with a greataxe) which is out of theme. You could allow oversized weapons, which deal an additional damage die, but that creates the problem of carrying one around for use just when raging. I could also see a subclass that grows when raging, but at that point we're not exactly in non-magic territory anymore.

 

[Minigiant]

But a lot of that is already represented in the Totem Warrior. Skin like steel? Bear totem barbarians get resistance to all non-psychic damage. Speed? Elk totem barbarians add 15 ft to their speed while raging, on top of their basic speed increase which makes them faster than equal-level monks up to 13th level. And strength is a core part of the barbarian, which is why a raging barbarian gets a damage bonus and advantage on Strength saves and checks.

Now, one might argue that these benefits are inadequate compared to the flashier benefits other barbarians get. But you're not likely to see anything that's strictly better.

The argument is exactly that. That the flashier benefits are are stronger and display their elements and focis better.

TheTotem Warrior is a great subclass. However the premise behind the thread is is that after the PHB, WOTC went straight to the Glitterworld for the barbarian an never looked back

You probably won't see barbarians one-hand greataxes though, because that would be a significant defensive upgrade (allowing a shield with a greataxe) which is out of theme. You could allow oversized weapons, which deal an additional damage die, but that creates the problem of carrying one around for use just when raging. I could also see a subclass that grows when raging, but at that point we're not exactly in non-magic territory anymore.

I don't think its that significant and this kinda put my point in focus. Barbarians can great lighting auras, a spiritual warrior mark, and bonus radiant damage.

But Greataxe and Shield or Oversized sword while raging is too much.

PATH OF THE HULK

HULKING GRIP
Starting at the 3rd level, your muscles ripple with power when your anger reaches its peak and allows you to wield mighty weapons effortlessly. While you are raging, have the following effects.

• You may wield and attack with a two handled weapon with one hand without penalty.
• If you are Small size or snaller, you no longer have disadvantage with attack roll with heavy weapons.
• You may add double your proficiency to Strength checks and saving throws to resist effects that cause you to drop or release your weapon.

PUSHY
At the 3rd level, you make shove a target up to 2 sizes larger than you.

(6th level sublclass feature here)

GIANT'S GRIP
At the 10th level, your grip while enraged is massive. While you are raging, you make wield a weapon made for a creature one size larger than you without penalty. While doing this, you have disadvantage to Dexterity saving throws and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.

(14th level subclass feature here)

 

[jmartkdr2]

The argument is exactly that. That the flashier benefits are are stronger and display their elements and focis better.

TheTotem Warrior is a great subclass. However the premise behind the thread is is that after the PHB, WOTC went straight to the Glitterworld for the barbarian an never looked back



I don't think its that significant and this kinda put my point in focus. Barbarians can great lighting auras, a spiritual warrior mark, and bonus radiant damage.

But Greataxe and Shield or Oversized sword while raging is too much.

PATH OF THE HULK

HULKING GRIP
Starting at the 3rd level, your muscles ripple with power when your anger reaches its peak and allows you to wield mighty weapons effortlessly. While you are raging, have the following effects.

• You may wield and attack with a two handled weapon with one hand without penalty.
• If you are Small size or snaller, you no longer have disadvantage with attack roll with heavy weapons.
• You may add double your proficiency to Strength checks and saving throws to resist effects that cause you to drop or release your weapon.

PUSHY
At the 3rd level, you make shove a target up to 2 sizes larger than you.

(6th level sublclass feature here)

GIANT'S GRIP
At the 10th level, your grip while enraged is massive. While you are raging, you make wield a weapon made for a creature one size larger than you without penalty. While doing this, you have disadvantage to Dexterity saving throws and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.

(14th level subclass feature here)

6th level: carry capacity bonus, including the ability to carry oversized stuff. (CF bear totem)

14th: free shove once per turn on a hit. (CF wolf totem)

 

[le Redoutable]

What class would Conan the "Barbarian" even be?
Not really a barbarian, given none of the paths make sense. Maybe a fighter that chooses not to wear armor and has a level dip in rogue?

from Basil Poledouris "Conan the Barbarian" soundtrack picture, Conan is labelled Thief/Warrior/Gladiator/King ( thanks to Ralif Redhammer )