JoeGKushner
Adventurer
freebfrost said:
Chaosium had like two limited editions.
One was like a leather bound style limited edition.
The other was the one I think you're talking about.
Hopefully it made them some money.
Has the RPG market crashed the $40 product price ceiling?
- Thread starter johnsemlak
- Start date
Chaosium had like two limited editions.
One was like a leather bound style limited edition.
The other was the one I think you're talking about.
Hopefully it made them some money.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
JoeGKushner said:
Yeah, they had two versions. One for around 80 dollars I think, that I got. Leatherbound and nice layout and stuff.
Then they had a special special for 120, which basically the same as the leatherbound but came in a slipcase and was signed by the team.
/M
freebfrost
Explorer
Actually, there were 5 versions of this (in order of rarity):JoeGKushner said:
1. 20th Anniversary Edition
2. Miskatonic University Library Edition
3. Contributors Edition
4. Gencon 2002 Edition
5. Name Edition
Warbringer said:
From my knowledge of the print industry, prices aren't moving up nearly as quickly as the prices of RPG products have. Of course, it's possible that what's going on is a correction...maybe the products were priced too lowly before?
I do know from previous knowledge of big printing companies that the industry was getting tighter, not more expensive, especially in light of competitors overseas, etc.
Banshee
w_earle_wheeler
First Post
What I find amusing is the number of 3rd party d20 products with huge fonts, horrible layout and poor editing pricing their books at $39.95 just because WotC is doing it.
Ugly greyscale borders, horrid fonts and messy background images just can't compete with the visual style of WotC. It doesn't trick anyone into thinking they're getting a higher quality product.
The strength of a non-WotC product is in the independant writing and game design. Focus on that instead of poorly emulating a style outside of your budget. Instead of spending extra money on flashy design that doesn't work in greyscale, pay for more black and white illustrations, or another copy editor, or a nicer cover piece. Or just skip it and keep it clean and simple.
Mongoose did a good job with the ParanoiaXP book. It was full of content and used artwork that was iconic to the genre. Kenzer is another good example with their HackMaster line. The 3rd edition of GURPS is another good example of how a publisher keeps costs down and quality standard with softcovers and artwork appropriate to a black-and-white layout (that is, until they started using messy photoshop art that would have worked well in color but was simply muddied in greyscale). The World's Largest Dungeon is another border offender, but it doesn't look too bad, and it is saved by the reasonably sized font and consistent, clean layout. I can (and will) buy an adventure module from Goodman Games for around $12, or a full-color one like The Devil Litch for around $20. Compare this to Monsters of Faerun or the new Warhammer FRP adventures.
WotC has the advantage of being able to print more books at less cost. Stop trying to be WotC.
The new Warhammer FRP adventures are an example of a bad move. Needlessly hardcover and overpriced, these supplements are a joke in my game store. The same goes for some of the ParanoiaXP supplements... priced in a similarly outrageous fashion to WotC's seldom spoken of Monsters of Faerun. The new Ravenloft books look like a mess, which is a real crime since their content isn't half-bad. The Adventure d20 book is an example of a great game with a good cover but an interior layout so schiziphrenic and embarassing that I couldn't bring myself to pay the outrageous cover price for it... maybe when it shows up in the discount bin, as many of the d20 publishers do in 6 months. Eden's All Flesh Must Be Eaten and WitchCraft are other awesome games that suffer slightly because of muggy layout and poor copy editing (thought WitchCraft was saved by amazing interior line art) -- if you look at the Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG, it at least seems worth its high cover price because it's in full color. At least until you start stumbling over the editing mistakes.
The publishers need to keep their costs down and show the authors and content the respect they deserve by editing it well and presenting it in a professional manner.
I could be wrong. Maybe most people don't notice these things. But most of these books are barely worth $30... and don't give me the "oh but how much would you spend at a movie and dinner" spiel. I and my group seldom buy a book priced over $30, and even then we will get it off of Amazon.com for 20% - 30% off with free shipping.
Maybe people with money to burn will be able to support the industry by buying 2 $40 books a month. Maybe I'm further in the minority than I want to believe. I guess only time will tell.
But I don't expect the prices to come down. They're up for good. To lower them would mean admitting that the price points have been set too high, and that's not going to happen.
Ugly greyscale borders, horrid fonts and messy background images just can't compete with the visual style of WotC. It doesn't trick anyone into thinking they're getting a higher quality product.
The strength of a non-WotC product is in the independant writing and game design. Focus on that instead of poorly emulating a style outside of your budget. Instead of spending extra money on flashy design that doesn't work in greyscale, pay for more black and white illustrations, or another copy editor, or a nicer cover piece. Or just skip it and keep it clean and simple.
Mongoose did a good job with the ParanoiaXP book. It was full of content and used artwork that was iconic to the genre. Kenzer is another good example with their HackMaster line. The 3rd edition of GURPS is another good example of how a publisher keeps costs down and quality standard with softcovers and artwork appropriate to a black-and-white layout (that is, until they started using messy photoshop art that would have worked well in color but was simply muddied in greyscale). The World's Largest Dungeon is another border offender, but it doesn't look too bad, and it is saved by the reasonably sized font and consistent, clean layout. I can (and will) buy an adventure module from Goodman Games for around $12, or a full-color one like The Devil Litch for around $20. Compare this to Monsters of Faerun or the new Warhammer FRP adventures.
WotC has the advantage of being able to print more books at less cost. Stop trying to be WotC.
The new Warhammer FRP adventures are an example of a bad move. Needlessly hardcover and overpriced, these supplements are a joke in my game store. The same goes for some of the ParanoiaXP supplements... priced in a similarly outrageous fashion to WotC's seldom spoken of Monsters of Faerun. The new Ravenloft books look like a mess, which is a real crime since their content isn't half-bad. The Adventure d20 book is an example of a great game with a good cover but an interior layout so schiziphrenic and embarassing that I couldn't bring myself to pay the outrageous cover price for it... maybe when it shows up in the discount bin, as many of the d20 publishers do in 6 months. Eden's All Flesh Must Be Eaten and WitchCraft are other awesome games that suffer slightly because of muggy layout and poor copy editing (thought WitchCraft was saved by amazing interior line art) -- if you look at the Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG, it at least seems worth its high cover price because it's in full color. At least until you start stumbling over the editing mistakes.
The publishers need to keep their costs down and show the authors and content the respect they deserve by editing it well and presenting it in a professional manner.
I could be wrong. Maybe most people don't notice these things. But most of these books are barely worth $30... and don't give me the "oh but how much would you spend at a movie and dinner" spiel. I and my group seldom buy a book priced over $30, and even then we will get it off of Amazon.com for 20% - 30% off with free shipping.
Maybe people with money to burn will be able to support the industry by buying 2 $40 books a month. Maybe I'm further in the minority than I want to believe. I guess only time will tell.
But I don't expect the prices to come down. They're up for good. To lower them would mean admitting that the price points have been set too high, and that's not going to happen.
Altalazar
First Post
This is just the inevitable result of inflation. Right now deficit spending is at record highs. That means they are just printing money at the fed to cover the difference. That means there is an increased money supply. That automatically means inflation - that is the definition of inflation. They try to hide it and pretend it isn't there (one fun way is to leave gas prices out of the calculations) but it is.
Truth is, $40 today is really just the $35 of a few years ago. So expect to see this a lot more. Real inflation right now is probably five percent per year.
Truth is, $40 today is really just the $35 of a few years ago. So expect to see this a lot more. Real inflation right now is probably five percent per year.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
Spycraft 2.0 is a total bargain at only $40. Any fence sitters should grab that book now. It blows d20 Modern out of the water.
In fact it pretty much blows away any d20 product released in the past year with the possible exception of M&M 2e. But considering that it has almost twice the page count of M&M 2e for the same price, I still consider it a better buy. And that says a lot because I love M&M.
Likewise, I also consider Shackled City a fantastic value for the money. Yes, its $60, but it is also a complete campaign that can take your PCs from level 1 to 20 with basically 13 adventures included along with handouts, full color maps, etc. A year's worth of gaming that works out to about 5 dollars a month. For 4 players and a DM, that works out to about 1 dollar per month per person. How is that not a bargain?
In fact it pretty much blows away any d20 product released in the past year with the possible exception of M&M 2e. But considering that it has almost twice the page count of M&M 2e for the same price, I still consider it a better buy. And that says a lot because I love M&M.
Likewise, I also consider Shackled City a fantastic value for the money. Yes, its $60, but it is also a complete campaign that can take your PCs from level 1 to 20 with basically 13 adventures included along with handouts, full color maps, etc. A year's worth of gaming that works out to about 5 dollars a month. For 4 players and a DM, that works out to about 1 dollar per month per person. How is that not a bargain?
Pants
First Post
So are the IK books... $40 bucks for around 400 pages each.Dragonblade said:
World of Warcraft is rather large (and color to boot, much like SC 2.0) and around $40.
These seem to be 'the norm'
Ptolus, WLD, Shackled City, and Wilderlands are the exceptions.
WLD and Shackled City are pretty much 'campaigns in a book.' It's easier to justify spending such an amount of money on something that may provide a year or two of continual play. Seriously, that's a fricken bargain!
Ptolus and Wilderlands strike me more as being the deluxe, niche products. Wilderlands is a bxed set, something that (I think) was kind of a money sinkhole, at least back during 1e and 2e. I vaguely remember saying that boxed sets cost too much money to make and didn't bring in enough to justify the costs.
Ptolus is.... well, it's Ptolus.
So no, I see these as being the exception. Most books still rarely ever get close to $40 and those that do are more than worth the price.
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