WotC Hasbro Bets Big on D&D

During today's 'Hasbro Fireside Chat', Hasbro's Chris Cocks, chief executive officer, and Cynthia Williams, president of Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming mentioned D&D, and about betting big on its name. This was in addition to the Magic: The Gathering discussion they held on the same call.

The following are rough notes on what they said.

D&D Beyond

• Leaning heavily on D&D Beyond
• 13 million registered users
• Give them more ways to express their fandom
• Hired 350 people last year
• Low attrition

What’s next for D&D

• Never been more popular
• Brand under-monetized
• Excited about D&D Beyond possibilities
• Empower accessibility and development of the user base.
• Data driven insight
• Window into how players are playing
• Companion app on their phone
• Start future monetization starting with D&D Beyond
• DMs are 20% of the audience but lions share of purchases
• Digital game recurrent spending for post sale revenue.
• Speed of digital can expand, yearly book model to include current digital style models.
• Reach highly engaged multigenerational fans.
• Dungeons and Dragons has recognition, 10 out of 10
• Cultural phenomenon right now.
• DND strategy is a broad four quadrant strategy
• Like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Marvel
• New books and accessories, licensed game stuff, and D&D Beyond
• Huge hopes for D&D

What is success for the D&D Movie

• First big light up oppourtunity for 4th quadrant
• Significant marketing
• They think it’ll have significant box office
• It has second most viewed trailer at Paramount, only eclipsed by Transformers
• Will be licensed video games, some on movies
• Then follow up other media, TV, other movies, etc.
• Bullish on D&D.

 

[Malmuria]

I just wish people would stop with the whole "micro-transaction" stuff.

Yup, you'll have small priced items - individual tokens, maps, dice packs, that sort of thing. Exactly like you have right now.

Aren't those considered microtransactions?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Aren't those considered microtransactions?

Same as minis and stuff.

 

[Yaarel]

The part that caught my eye:

What’s next for D&D

• Excited about D&D Beyond possibilities

 

[Yaarel]

Already posted my prediction earlier. Books you own in beyond being added to the tabletop, and some original tile sets and Pre made content for sale.

I would be more comfortable spending money for digital offerings if buying a hardcopy book thru DnDBeyond also got its digital usage.

 

[Hussar]

Aren't those considered microtransactions?

But, if they are, then why haven't people been bitching about them for the past ten years? Why is it only a really bad thing when WotC does it?

 

[TheSword]

It might not work for you, but they're literally already doing it with the current DDB subscription model and it's not hard to figure out why: you lose all the bells and whistles you've gained over a multi-year subscription that gets harder and hard to let lapse for even a month if you lose everything you've built up. If I let my DDB subscription expire, I lose the dice sets and whatever else they've given me. Personally I couldn't care less about that stuff, but if I was heavily invested in a 3D VTT would I want to figure out what items were sub bonuses and what items came with books I've bought? Nope, so I'd keep my subscription going to avoid the risk of losing something I actually care about, same as my PlayStation network sub that I haven't used the online service in ages but do occasionally play a random game that might have been a PS Plus freebie. Again, I'm not arguing it doesn't suck for the consumer. I'm arguing big companies do things like that to make it harder to want to cancel. They want that regular annual subscription money.

I echo @Malmuria ’s sadness. You shouldn’t have to blackmail people into staying with a subscription service because you’ll lose what you paid for if you stop it. You should keep people because it’s value for money - and there are multiple ways to do that.

If D&D wants a subscription service that fans will get behind then it has to be value for money and not gimmick based. People are savvier than that. There is value to having access to all the rules D&D has produced for 5e available on subscription. There’s not value in having to buy rules individually on top of having to pay an inflated subscription for a VTT they don’t need in the first place.

 

[Velderan]

I echo @Malmuria ’s sadness. You shouldn’t have to blackmail people into staying with a subscription service because you’ll lose what you paid for if you stop it. You should keep people because it’s value for money - and there are multiple ways to do that.

If D&D wants a subscription service that fans will get behind then it has to be value for money and not gimmick based. People are savvier than that. There is value to having access to all the rules D&D has produced for 5e available on subscription. There’s not value in having to buy rules individually on top of having to pay an inflated subscription for a VTT they don’t need in the first place.

Well you tell that to the companies (including WotC) that currently have the model I've described as a subscription offering. I'm not saying it doesn't suck for consumers, but it absolutely can be effective if what is being offered is considered worth the downside and I think you're giving consumers far too much credit when you say they're too savvy for that sorta thing considering the number of large companies (again including WotC currently) that have this exact type of model in place.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Hasbro also could work for the reanimation of old franchises by other companies. Let's imagine for example an old cartoon "Pirates of the dark Waters", produced by Hanna Barbera. Today is a totally dead brand. Who would be interested into this? Then Hasbro talks with Warner-Discovery and this is the deal. WotC desings the lore and the background of the reimaginated version, and WarnerDiscovery creates the main (non-playable) characters and the plot of a new cartoon show. Hasbro sells the toys and TTRPG. Or to publish a mash-up mixing DC Universe (mainly Gotham city) and New Capena.

Or Hasbro could talk with Disney to add Marvel Superheroes and Star Wars in the One-D&D VTT, or One-D&D puslibhing a mash-up mixing Star Wars+Spelljammer.... or with a licence with Paramount to publish a mash-up mixing Spelljammer+Star Trek.

Jakandor could be the perfect setting if Paramount Pictures wanted to produce a mixture of Conan the Barbarian and Jurasik Park: Sword&Sorcery with dinosaurs and megafaun.

* Technically "Hero Quest" is not within D&D franchise. This means it could be linceced into other movie studio instead Paramount. And a future pack could be "Hero Quest: Companion of the Lance" with the heroes and monsters of Dragonlance.

* Is Konami the owner of the franchise "Duel Master/Kaijudo"?

* Could a "domain of delight" be inspired or based in Prety Cure: Glitter Force?

 

[MockingBird]

I'd love a reboot of Pirates of Dark Water

 

[Sabathius42]

Is there any real doubt that this will be a subscription service? The only question I really have is what comes with the subscription. That it will be a subscription is pretty obvious.

I just wish people would stop with the whole "micro-transaction" stuff. This ISN'T a video game. VTT's are a service - same as you Zoom subscription or your Microsoft 365. There is no game here. None at all. This is a totally different animal. Yup, you'll have small priced items - individual tokens, maps, dice packs, that sort of thing. Exactly like you have right now. But the whole notion of "loot boxes" or MMO comparisons is just not applicable at all.

Lets go in a slightly different direction with this discussion.

What do YOU think the 350+ new employees working on the digital footprint of DnD are going to be working on, and how do you think Hasbro/WotC is going to recoup the costs of exploding their paid workforce? What do YOU think it means that they want to focus on recurring post-purchase revenue? Do you believe their new focus is to just do whatever they are doing now without any significant changes?

I see you shooting down everyone elses idea of what WotC might mean, but I don't see you offering up your own opinion on the matter.

I have doubts a company is going to hire 350+ additional coders just to keep doing what they already are doing.

 

[Oofta]

Lets go in a slightly different direction with this discussion.

What do YOU think the 350+ new employees working on the digital footprint of DnD are going to be working on, and how do you think Hasbro/WotC is going to recoup the costs of exploding their paid workforce? What do YOU think it means that they want to focus on recurring post-purchase revenue? Do you believe their new focus is to just do whatever they are doing now without any significant changes?

I see you shooting down everyone elses idea of what WotC might mean, but I don't see you offering up your own opinion on the matter.

I have doubts a company is going to hire 350+ additional coders just to keep doing what they already are doing.

I don't remember it being 350 coders. But they could be working on a lot of things, the VTT being just one of them. DDB may need major revisions so that it can be more flexible and provide a better API. They could be looking at publishing a AAA game. They could be adding writing staff to release a new version of Gamma World.

We don't know what they're planning on. Obviously they are working on products that WOTC will make a profit on, that still doesn't mean there's any reason for concern. If the VTT doesn't work for you because you don't like their pricing strategy, don't use it. I will agree with @Hussar (sorry Hussar), in that it feels like the term microtransaction is being used as a scare tactic when they'll just likely be adding tokens and assets like all VTTs do.

 

[mamba]

I have doubts a company is going to hire 350+ additional coders just to keep doing what they already are doing.

If there are more than 100 coders here I’d be surprised. It being 50 ‘only’ would not surprise me however.

I assume there are a lot more involved in creating models (chars, monsters, environments) and textures, etc. Even so that 350 number is huge and WotC must expect a return on their investment (of easily 20M a year).

That could be a subscription model for the VTT, I would expect sets for the different adventures too, and definitely buying skins or fancy items for the chars.
If you look how much some games make, the last one alone can easily cover the salary if things go ‘as planned’. Might even make the VTT free to attract more users.

 

[Hussar]

Lets go in a slightly different direction with this discussion.

What do YOU think the 350+ new employees working on the digital footprint of DnD are going to be working on, and how do you think Hasbro/WotC is going to recoup the costs of exploding their paid workforce? What do YOU think it means that they want to focus on recurring post-purchase revenue? Do you believe their new focus is to just do whatever they are doing now without any significant changes?

I see you shooting down everyone elses idea of what WotC might mean, but I don't see you offering up your own opinion on the matter.

I have doubts a company is going to hire 350+ additional coders just to keep doing what they already are doing.

Well let’s go back to 4e for a moment. Even with a vastly smaller DnD community than now, it was generally agreed that WotC was seeing about 100 000 subs. That was about half a million dollars per month.

Suddenly recouping that investment doesn’t seem to far about of reach without “loot boxes” and “micro transactions “.

 

[Sabathius42]

Well let’s go back to 4e for a moment. Even with a vastly smaller DnD community than now, it was generally agreed that WotC was seeing about 100 000 subs. That was about half a million dollars per month.

Suddenly recouping that investment doesn’t seem to far about of reach without “loot boxes” and “micro transactions “.

I subbed back in the 4e days because the character builder was AWESOME. Access to every character related item (there were a few that didn't get programmed from odd sources) pretty much within a month of it coming out. I killed it when they killed the builder and repla ed it with a crappier version.

I have no interest in DDB because I'm not going to pay double for every book I purchase.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

For example right now you can share content with your group on dndbeyond; they might start charging to do that.

I'm saying one path to increased revenue would be charge for the one person to share content

This is from a few pages back, but D&D Beyond already has a subscription service level that lets you share the content you and your players have bought with each other in a campaign.

D&D Beyond already has microtransactions and a subscription service. D&D has had microtransactions for decades if you count minis, battlemaps, and similar products. Weren't the D&D magazines subscription services? A bunch of people in this thread that are complaining about the notion of subscription services being added to D&D have previously said that they loved those magazines.

What's changed, folks? We've had microtransactions and subscription services in D&D for decades. D&D Beyond already has them, and people seem to love that site.

 

[Malmuria]

This is from a few pages back, but D&D Beyond already has a subscription service level that lets you share the content you and your players have bought with each other in a campaign.

D&D Beyond already has microtransactions and a subscription service. D&D has had microtransactions for decades if you count minis, battlemaps, and similar products. Weren't the D&D magazines subscription services? A bunch of people in this thread that are complaining about the notion of subscription services being added to D&D have previously said that they loved those magazines.

What's changed, folks? We've had microtransactions and subscription services in D&D for decades. D&D Beyond already has them, and people seem to love that site.

Well everyone here seems to have a different relations to these things; I seem to be on the cheapo side. For me, I would have two questions: 1) is this necessary or useful for playing the game, and 2) will this be something I own or something I rent.

For example:

• to play dnd one set of dice is necessary, multiple sets of dice are helpful; physical dice you'll own for your whole life (and the planet will own them for longer), digital dice you might lose with your subscription.
• a physical magazine you can keep or recycle, sell it later if you want; digtial subscription benefits (some of them, at least) disappear end when you stop paying
• physical minis you own, and though I never got into it, painting minis seems to be creative and fun and I imagine it would be a nice activity to do with friends. Digital minis you have to purchase on a proprietary system are not something you own. I guess learning how to design a 3d virtual mini might be fun and creative.

I do spend money in the ttrpg hobby, backing kickstarters and what not. Many of the kickstarters I have backed have absolutely come into use (like my OSE books), but others I feel I may have backed just because of fomo and hype. Though, even the ones I regret I've sold with minimal financial loss if any, or given away to people who will appreciate them. I wrote about some of my ambivalence about my spending here.

Cheapo 5e playing: paper character sheet or set up something in google sheets, phb has little plastic tabs for each section. I don't use dnd beyond (clearly!). Physical dice and we just trust each other if playing online (though there are free dice apps)
Cheapo 5e dming: google doc plus a physical notebook, sometimes owlbear rodeo if online

 

[Hussar]

I subbed back in the 4e days because the character builder was AWESOME. Access to every character related item (there were a few that didn't get programmed from odd sources) pretty much within a month of it coming out. I killed it when they killed the builder and repla ed it with a crappier version.

I have no interest in DDB because I'm not going to pay double for every book I purchase.

Whereas, for 5e, I own three physical books - the core 3 - and about six or seven digital versions for Fantasy Grounds. This thread has made me realize that I haven't actually opened my 5e Monster Manual in years. Heck, I barely open any of the books. They look practically brand new.

So, for OneD&D, I'll likely only buy one version of every book - the digital one. I highly doubt I'll bother buying a physical copy.

 

[Oofta]

Well everyone here seems to have a different relations to these things; I seem to be on the cheapo side. For me, I would have two questions: 1) is this necessary or useful for playing the game, and 2) will this be something I own or something I rent.

For example:

• to play dnd one set of dice is necessary, multiple sets of dice are helpful; physical dice you'll own for your whole life (and the planet will own them for longer), digital dice you might lose with your subscription.
• a physical magazine you can keep or recycle, sell it later if you want; digtial subscription benefits (some of them, at least) disappear end when you stop paying
• physical minis you own, and though I never got into it, painting minis seems to be creative and fun and I imagine it would be a nice activity to do with friends. Digital minis you have to purchase on a proprietary system are not something you own. I guess learning how to design a 3d virtual mini might be fun and creative.

I do spend money in the ttrpg hobby, backing kickstarters and what not. Many of the kickstarters I have backed have absolutely come into use (like my OSE books), but others I feel I may have backed just because of fomo and hype. Though, even the ones I regret I've sold with minimal financial loss if any, or given away to people who will appreciate them. I wrote about some of my ambivalence about my spending here.

Cheapo 5e playing: paper character sheet or set up something in google sheets, phb has little plastic tabs for each section. I don't use dnd beyond (clearly!). Physical dice and we just trust each other if playing online (though there are free dice apps)
Cheapo 5e dming: google doc plus a physical notebook, sometimes owlbear rodeo if online

Which is fine. DDB works for me because it's worth the convenience. I like that I can purchase just parts of books that interest me, I haven't purchased a physical book for a while.

Good news for you and people like you? Nobody is going to make you subscribe to DDB or a VTT, you'll never have to pay a subscription service, you have no reason to be concerned about microtransactions.

 

[Oofta]

Whereas, for 5e, I own three physical books - the core 3 - and about six or seven digital versions for Fantasy Grounds. This thread has made me realize that I haven't actually opened my 5e Monster Manual in years. Heck, I barely open any of the books. They look practically brand new.

So, for OneD&D, I'll likely only buy one version of every book - the digital one. I highly doubt I'll bother buying a physical copy.

I have a few books gathering dust on a shelf. Meanwhile I'm a sucker for new monsters even though I rarely use them but can buy just the monsters from a book for a reduced cost.

 

[Umbran]

Not claiming it is just saying that's where the concern comes from.

I know. I knew when you said it before. We didn't misunderstand you. We are going beyond that, trying to shine a light on it to show that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to apply those examples to this game.